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a : aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com 11 February 2006 • 3:55PM -0500

AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06
by AeroElectric-List Digest Server

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                           AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
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                     Total Messages Posted Fri 02/10/06: 16
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------

     1. 04:12 AM - antennas  (bob noffs)
     2. 05:06 AM - Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 06:59 AM - Re: antennas  (Brian Lloyd)
     4. 07:28 AM - antennas  ()
     5. 07:41 AM - Re: antennas  (BobsV35B@aol....)
     6. 07:43 AM - A Better PLB Web Site  ()
     7. 08:36 AM - Re: Icom A200-Help!  ()
     8. 08:57 AM - Electronics info needed  (Randy & Linda Nelson)
     9. 09:00 AM - Re: A Better PLB Web Site  (Jim Baker)
    10. 09:04 AM - Electronics info needed  (Randy & Linda Nelson)
    11. 09:06 AM - Re: antennas  (Paul Wilson)
    12. 10:22 AM - Re: Electronics info needed  (Ron Russell Voyager Travel)
    13. 10:51 AM - Re: Electronics info needed  (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
    14. 03:29 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Bill Maxwell)
    15. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Bill Denton)
    16. 07:02 PM - Re: Avionics-List: A Better PLB Web Site  (W J R HAMILTON)



________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 04:12:25 AM PST US
From: "bob noffs" <icubob@newn...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: antennas

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" <icubob@newn...>

hi all,
  i have gotten quite a bit of info from the responses to my questions. i now am
confident i can mount my comm antenna and transponder and they will work. the
elt with a ground plane still has me stalled though. will have more questions
about that , just wanted to let everyone know how helpful the responses were.
gotta go make donuts now.
                  bob noffs












________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 05:06:05 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 08:26 AM 2/10/2006 +0100, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
><mick-matronics@rv8....>
>
>  > Got a 'net address for their published schematic?
>
>
>I've scanned one here:
>
>http://rv8.ch/files/Icom%20IC-A200%20Installation%20Instructions.pdf
>
>Basically you want page 5.  Sorry about the huge file size
>for those of you not on broadband.  It's about 6MB.

    Mmmm . . . pretty cryptic instructions. I'm not sure how
    the intercom feature works since they don't show how to hook
    up a second headset/mic circuit. And for a radio that draws
    2.6A in transmit, the power and grounding requirements are
    a tad hyperbolic.  They also call out requirements in the
    text that are not repeated/illustrated in the drawings.
    I'll study this a bit and see if I can unravel the "code" . . .


    Bob . . .


      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
      < with experiment.                                      >
      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >













________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 06:59:15 AM PST US
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloy...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: antennas

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloy...>



Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
>
> Guess I forgot to ask if you had a dual freq ELT . . . I guess all the
> new ones are.

The old ones are too. They operate at 121.5 MHz and 243 MHz.

> In this case, the ground plane under a stock antenna is
> necessary. But since it's a dual freq, one might argue that two sets of
> radials would be good . . . one set tuned for 121.5 (24") and another
> set optimized for 406 (7.3"). Hmmm . . . maybe a 7.3" radius piece of
> copper foil with a few 20" legs soldered to the edge. The single dipole
> I suggested would not be suited for dual frequency use (although one
> COULD be crafted . . . it would probably be more trouble than it's worth).

And a tuned 1/4 wave counterpoise (radials) for 121.5 MHz is totally
useless at 243 MHz. Good point about having two sets of radials.

--
Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery












________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 07:28:56 AM PST US
From: <bakerocb@cox....>
Cc: <avionics-list@matr...>, <aeroelectric-list@matr...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: antennas

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox....>

Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "bob noffs"
<icubob@newn...>

2/10/2006

Hello Bob, Dare I post some heresy? Will the gummint sic its watch dogs on
me? Will the electromagnetic radiation purists on the list rise up in total
fury to slap me down? Well, I'll take a chance.

Suppose that the gummint, in its infinite wisdom, mandated that every
aircraft carry 3 pounds of butter and a container of maple syrup just in
case the survival situation after crashing resulted in a supply of pancakes
as the available food supply. Would you insist on carrying genuine maple
syrup or would an imitation be good enough for you?

Maybe an ELT is a little more useful than butter and maple syrup in a crash
situation, but I sure as hell wouldn't place my entire faith in being found
and rescued in one of the garden variety ELT's that we are mandated to
carry. My point is that obsessing over antenna ground plane details is
wasted time.

Nobody knows exactly what attitude their aircraft will be in when it
finishes crashing. The ELT antenna could end up pointing directly down at,
and a few inches from, the surface of the earth. How much difference would a
perfect ground plane, if one could construct one, make in that situation?

Here is my thinking:

1) To be legal, buy one of the garden variety ELT's that we are mandated to
carry. Install it securely in the proper location in the proper attitude
with regard to its deceleration sensor. Fasten on the wire antenna that came
with the ELT and don't obsess over ground planes or what the antenna's
attitude will be when you finish crashing. Go fly.

2) If you want to take some truly effective steps for rescue after crashing
you can, and probably should to the degree that you are concerned and
considering routes of flight, do some or all of the following.

2A) Always carry a hand held VHF comm radio with a battery supply that you
KNOW to be capable of extended operation.

2B) Always carry a cell phone with a battery supply that you KNOW to be
capable of extended operation.

2C) Purchase and carry a PLB http://www.equipped.com/faq_plb/default.asp

2D) Carry a tough plastic container of water -- size your choice. My
experience with even short time rescued people is that they experienced an
almost mentally debilitating thirst shortly after crashing.

2E) Carry a knife of enough size and sturdiness to punch through / crack
your plastic windows and canopy.

I am sure that other posters will add their favorite / essential crash
survival items, but obsessing over these items falls into the same category
of time wasting like obsessing over ground planes. Take what you deem to be
reasonable precautions to be rescued after a survivable crash and then
proceed to fly worry and guilt free (and legal).

OC

PS: If you have the bank account to afford one of the new 406 Mhz ELT's, go
for it.

<< hi all, I have several antennas to install. My elt requires a ground
plane. Tim at b and
c was very helpful with my questions but i question leads to 5 more. Is
there
any way around a ground plane for the elt? If not, any suggestions on how to
make it in my wood/cloth fuselage? At first i thought numerous strips of
thin
copper way the way to go but that looks like just more fasteners. Can a very
thin sheet be laid down in the fuse. bottom? It wouldnt exactly be flat with
all the woodworking to go around.....skip.....Thanks in advance, bob noffs>>













________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 07:41:59 AM PST US
From: BobsV35B@aol....
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: antennas

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol....



Good Morning OC,  

I know the rules say no "me too" messages, but you have presented the same  
arguments that I would like to present, but was afraid to send due to the  
flaming I would get had I done so!

Very well done.

Do Not Archive

Happy  Skies,

Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman  N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630  985-8503


In a message dated 2/10/2006 9:31:26 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
bakerocb@cox.... writes:

2/10/2006

Hello Bob, Dare I post some heresy? Will the gummint  sic its watch dogs on
me? Will the electromagnetic radiation purists on  the list rise up in total
fury to slap me down? Well, I'll take a  chance.

Suppose that the gummint, in its infinite wisdom, mandated that  every
aircraft carry 3 pounds of butter and a container of maple syrup  just in
case the survival situation after crashing resulted in a supply of  pancakes
as the available food supply. Would you insist on carrying  genuine maple
syrup or would an imitation be good enough for  you?

Maybe an ELT is a little more useful than butter and maple syrup  in a crash
situation, but I sure as hell wouldn't place my entire faith in  being found
and rescued in one of the garden variety ELT's that we are  mandated to
carry. My point is that obsessing over antenna ground plane  details is
wasted time.

Nobody knows exactly what attitude their  aircraft will be in when it
finishes crashing. The ELT antenna could end  up pointing directly down at,
and a few inches from, the surface of the  earth. How much difference would a
perfect ground plane, if one could  construct one, make in that situation?

Here is my thinking:

1)  To be legal, buy one of the garden variety ELT's that we are mandated to  
carry. Install it securely in the proper location in the proper attitude  
with regard to its deceleration sensor. Fasten on the wire antenna that  came
with the ELT and don't obsess over ground planes or what the  antenna's
attitude will be when you finish crashing. Go fly.

2) If  you want to take some truly effective steps for rescue after crashing
you  can, and probably should to the degree that you are concerned and  
considering routes of flight, do some or all of the following.

2A)  Always carry a hand held VHF comm radio with a battery supply that you  
KNOW to be capable of extended operation.

2B) Always carry a cell  phone with a battery supply that you KNOW to be
capable of extended  operation.

2C) Purchase and carry a PLB  http://www.equipped.com/faq_plb/default.asp

2D) Carry a tough plastic  container of water -- size your choice. My
experience with even short time  rescued people is that they experienced an
almost mentally debilitating  thirst shortly after crashing.

2E) Carry a knife of enough size and  sturdiness to punch through / crack
your plastic windows and  canopy.

I am sure that other posters will add their favorite /  essential crash
survival items, but obsessing over these items falls into  the same category
of time wasting like obsessing over ground planes. Take  what you deem to be
reasonable precautions to be rescued after a  survivable crash and then
proceed to fly worry and guilt free (and  legal).

OC

















________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 07:43:01 AM PST US
From: <bakerocb@cox....>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: A Better PLB Web Site

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox....>

2/10/2006

I wish that I had included this web site in my response to Bob Noffs'
question about making a ground plane for an ELT antenna.

http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html

Here is an extract from that site regarding our currently government
mandated ELT's:

"Unfortunately, these have proven to be highly ineffective. They have a 97%
false alarm rate, activate properly in only 12% of crashes, and provide no
identification data."

OC














________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 08:36:54 AM PST US
From: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>

Jerry:
  
  I agree with you that the diagram and instructions are not real clear, but I
can help. What do you not understand. We can go over it pin by pin.
  
  First I have to admit you set-up does not make a lot of sense to me. I don't
understand the use of two ICOM's A200, no intercom or audio panel.
  
  What kind of plane and use (VFR, IFR). I assume you have a one place plane because
you really need a VOX intercom. The ICOM has an intercom but....
  
  The built in intercom is really a super simple non-VOX button activated intercom
that works independent of transmitting (ie either radio or intercom but not
both at the same time, optional toggle switch needs to be installed.)
  
  As far as audio panel, when you have two COMs it is hard to get around but can
be done with some simple switches, but you really are limiting the usefulness
of two COM's. There are some cheap used audio panels on eBay. You could make
a simple switch to select which radio you want to transmit on and feed one radio
audio thru the aux input of the other, making one the "master". This is non-standard
wiring. I understand the need to listen to two radios at one time,
ATC and ATIS for example. However the elegant solution is the Apollo SL40 with
two receivers built in, which allows listening to two freqs at the same time.
Since you can only transmit on one Freq at a time why two radios. In the old
days it was nice to have two radios, so you could store two freqs, one in each
radio, but two radios is less an advantage with Flip flop freq features of new
radios. The nice thing is to listen to two freqs which the single Apollo SL40
does.
  
  Don't get me wrong the ICOM is awesome, but do you really need two radios? If
you do I would consider a audio panel. If you have a two place I would consider
an intercom. PS engineering makes a cool little intercom, simple audio panel
to handle just two coms.
  
  I sent you an off line email and we can talk about it.
  
  George (completed two ICOM A200 installations so I am an expert :-) )

  From: Jerry2DT@aol....
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....

Listers,

This question has been asked before by others, but replies are unclear. The
good folks at Icom have put an insufficient (IMO) "wiring diagram" in their
one sheet fold-out instructions. This is not like the ones we see on this
list, so they must think we are incapable of reading a "real" one.

Now that I've vented... Has anyone out there made a genuine one for this
radio that I can beg, borrow, steal? My setup is with two of these radios, but

with no audio panel.
This might have been a mistake, trying to save weight, time, panel space,
and $$$...

Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR

---------------------------------













________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 08:57:01 AM PST US
From: "Randy & Linda Nelson" <RLNelson-5@peop...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronics info needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Randy & Linda Nelson" <RLNelson-5@peop...>

Hello to all.  New to this list. I need some electronics type people to help
on this one.
I am redoing a 1956 Piper Tri-pacer panel.

I have the reserve fuel option. This option has a 8 gallon tank under the
rear seat. This 8 gal tank feeds a small Facet 12v 30 gph pump, which feeds
into the Rh rear wing tank  fuel line.

The pump  is actuated by a very antique type push pull switch that no longer
works. It is no longer available . So I am free to come up with a
alternate/equivalent type switch.

The specs say to run this pump for 25 to 30 min after the Rh main tank is
empty and fuel valve switched to the left tank.

The 1st problem is the switch is inop as above.
The 2nd problem is that it is very easy to forget about the Res. Fuel switch
and leave the pump running.

So I would like the new switch setup to do the following .

Replace old inop switch with Regular Toggle Switch .

Add Indicator light [ Res. Fuel, yellow] on dash that goes on ,

Pump starts to pump.

Add some sort of electronic timer attached to switch starts . After 25-30
min the timer will shut off the pump . [I have replaced the fuel lines for
this pump and have changed the -3 fuel line to a  -4 line so it would be
nice to have a time adjustment if the pump empty's out the tank faster.]

The [Res. Fuel yellow] indicator light turns off and pump turns off.

Res fuel switch auto returns to off or sort of half off where you have to
reset the switch to start over.

This pump does not draw a lot of amps 1-3 amps  

   I am ok with electronics and following a schematic  and wiring it.

I am a A+P and am working on my own plane.
Thanks
Randy N












________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 09:00:48 AM PST US
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@tele...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: A Better PLB Web Site

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@tele...>

> "Unfortunately, these have proven to be highly ineffective. They
have
> a 97% false alarm rate, activate properly in only 12% of crashes,
and
> provide no identification data."

Not that it would, or could, ever make a difference....my lowly Bendix
King KLX100 handheld GPS/Comm had a neat feature that, upon
activation, broadcast, on 121.5,  a 15 second voice message of your
choice then followed that with a voice sythesized message of the
unit's lat/lon. Same problems still inherent....I can imagine lying there
having that thing broadcasting where I am and no one hearing it. I
think I'll start carrying the butter and syrup.


Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV,  492TC
Elmore City, OK













________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 09:04:16 AM PST US
From: "Randy & Linda Nelson" <RLNelson-5@peop...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronics info needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Randy & Linda Nelson" <RLNelson-5@peop...>

Hello to all.  New to this list. I need some electronics type people to help
on this one.
I am redoing a 1956 Piper Tri-pacer panel.

I have the reserve fuel option. This option has a 8 gallon tank under the
rear seat. This 8 gal tank feeds a small Facet 12v 30 gph pump, which feeds
into the Rh rear wing tank  fuel line.

The pump  is actuated by a very antique type push pull switch that no longer
works. It is no longer available . So I am free to come up with a
alternate/equivalent type switch.

The specs say to run this pump for 25 to 30 min after the Rh main tank is
empty and fuel valve switched to the left tank.

The 1st problem is the switch is inop as above.
The 2nd problem is that it is very easy to forget about the Res. Fuel switch
and leave the pump running.

So I would like the new switch setup to do the following .

Replace old inop switch with Regular Toggle Switch .

Add Indicator light [ Res. Fuel, yellow] on dash that goes on ,

Pump starts to pump.

Add some sort of electronic timer attached to switch starts . After 25-30
min the timer will shut off the pump . [I have replaced the fuel lines for
this pump and have changed the -3 fuel line to a  -4 line so it would be
nice to have a time adjustment if the pump empty's out the tank faster.]

The [Res. Fuel yellow] indicator light turns off and pump turns off.

Res fuel switch auto returns to off or sort of half off where you have to
reset the switch to start over.

This pump does not draw a lot of amps 1-3 amps  

   I am ok with electronics and following a schematic  and wiring it.

I am a A+P and am working on my own plane.
Thanks
Randy N












________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 09:06:32 AM PST US
From: Paul Wilson <pwmac@sisn...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: antennas

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Paul Wilson <pwmac@sisn...>

Curious why you did not mention a sat phone? They save lives all the time
all that is needed is a list of appropriate phone numbers. Cost is coming
down all the time and even used hand sets are available. Save your self
instead of depending on the system.
Regards, Paul
=============
At 02:28 AM 2/10/2006, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox....>
>
>Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "bob noffs"
><icubob@newn...>
>
>2/10/2006
>
>Hello Bob, Dare I post some heresy? Will the gummint sic its watch dogs on
>me? Will the electromagnetic radiation purists on the list rise up in total
>fury to slap me down? Well, I'll take a chance.
>
>Suppose that the gummint, in its infinite wisdom, mandated that every
>aircraft carry 3 pounds of butter and a container of maple syrup just in
>case the survival situation after crashing resulted in a supply of pancakes
>as the available food supply. Would you insist on carrying genuine maple
>syrup or would an imitation be good enough for you?
>
>Maybe an ELT is a little more useful than butter and maple syrup in a crash
>situation, but I sure as hell wouldn't place my entire faith in being found
>and rescued in one of the garden variety ELT's that we are mandated to
>carry. My point is that obsessing over antenna ground plane details is
>wasted time.
>
>Nobody knows exactly what attitude their aircraft will be in when it
>finishes crashing. The ELT antenna could end up pointing directly down at,
>and a few inches from, the surface of the earth. How much difference would a
>perfect ground plane, if one could construct one, make in that situation?
>
>Here is my thinking:
>
>1) To be legal, buy one of the garden variety ELT's that we are mandated to
>carry. Install it securely in the proper location in the proper attitude
>with regard to its deceleration sensor. Fasten on the wire antenna that came
>with the ELT and don't obsess over ground planes or what the antenna's
>attitude will be when you finish crashing. Go fly.
>
>2) If you want to take some truly effective steps for rescue after crashing
>you can, and probably should to the degree that you are concerned and
>considering routes of flight, do some or all of the following.
>
>2A) Always carry a hand held VHF comm radio with a battery supply that you
>KNOW to be capable of extended operation.
>
>2B) Always carry a cell phone with a battery supply that you KNOW to be
>capable of extended operation.
>
>2C) Purchase and carry a PLB http://www.equipped.com/faq_plb/default.asp
>
>2D) Carry a tough plastic container of water -- size your choice. My
>experience with even short time rescued people is that they experienced an
>almost mentally debilitating thirst shortly after crashing.
>
>2E) Carry a knife of enough size and sturdiness to punch through / crack
>your plastic windows and canopy.
>
>I am sure that other posters will add their favorite / essential crash
>survival items, but obsessing over these items falls into the same category
>of time wasting like obsessing over ground planes. Take what you deem to be
>reasonable precautions to be rescued after a survivable crash and then
>proceed to fly worry and guilt free (and legal).
>
>OC
>
>PS: If you have the bank account to afford one of the new 406 Mhz ELT's, go
>for it.
>
><< hi all, I have several antennas to install. My elt requires a ground
>plane. Tim at b and
>c was very helpful with my questions but i question leads to 5 more. Is
>there
>any way around a ground plane for the elt? If not, any suggestions on how to
>make it in my wood/cloth fuselage? At first i thought numerous strips of
>thin
>copper way the way to go but that looks like just more fasteners. Can a very
>thin sheet be laid down in the fuse. bottom? It wouldnt exactly be flat with
>all the woodworking to go around.....skip.....Thanks in advance, bob noffs>>
>
>














________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 10:22:13 AM PST US
From: Ron Russell Voyager Travel <ron@voya...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electronics info needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ron Russell Voyager Travel <ron@voya...>

I also have a 56 Tri-Pacer. The push pull switch is connected to a cable
that operates a valve. This valve prevents the fuel in the wing tank from
flowing to the aux. tank when the pump is off. If this valve is not closed
and the pump is off I have seen fuel come out the Aux. fuel cap.
Does your plane still have this mechanical valve?

Ron Russell


At 08:53 AM 2/10/2006, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Randy & Linda Nelson"
><RLNelson-5@peop...>
>
>Hello to all.  New to this list. I need some electronics type people to help
>on this one.
>I am redoing a 1956 Piper Tri-pacer panel.
>
>  I have the reserve fuel option. This option has a 8 gallon tank under the
>rear seat. This 8 gal tank feeds a small Facet 12v 30 gph pump, which feeds
>into the Rh rear wing tank  fuel line.
>
>The pump  is actuated by a very antique type push pull switch that no longer
>works. It is no longer available . So I am free to come up with a
>alternate/equivalent type switch.
>
>The specs say to run this pump for 25 to 30 min after the Rh main tank is
>empty and fuel valve switched to the left tank.
>
>The 1st problem is the switch is inop as above.
>The 2nd problem is that it is very easy to forget about the Res. Fuel switch
>and leave the pump running.
>
>  So I would like the new switch setup to do the following .
>
>Replace old inop switch with Regular Toggle Switch .
>
>  Add Indicator light [ Res. Fuel, yellow] on dash that goes on ,
>
>  Pump starts to pump.
>
>  Add some sort of electronic timer attached to switch starts . After 25-30
>min the timer will shut off the pump . [I have replaced the fuel lines for
>this pump and have changed the -3 fuel line to a  -4 line so it would be
>nice to have a time adjustment if the pump empty's out the tank faster.]
>
>The [Res. Fuel yellow] indicator light turns off and pump turns off.
>
>  Res fuel switch auto returns to off or sort of half off where you have to
>reset the switch to start over.
>
>  This pump does not draw a lot of amps 1-3 amps
>
>    I am ok with electronics and following a schematic  and wiring it.
>
>I am a A+P and am working on my own plane.
>Thanks
>  Randy N
>
>














________________________________  Message 13  ____________________________________


Time: 10:51:38 AM PST US
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Electronics info needed
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.c...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.c...>

So Facet pumps can now be used on certified aircraft?....Geee guess us
experimental drivers are not so far out of line cus we've been using
them for years!..:)

The easiest option I see is a simple on/off switch ($2 from our local Bi
mart..Knects stock them too I think they are Neilhoff brand or
something....I been using a panel full of these for 6 years never had
one go bad) and a LED potted for 12V (or do you run 24V?...In which case
just plumb a resistor in line) to show you when you have the pump on.

If the wing tank is bigger than your res tank just empty it and dump it
all in there at once.

There is a fuel pump minder cuircuit that will switch it off when it
detects the electrical load has gone away...i.e when the res tank is
empty...More functionality than I need however.

Cheers

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of Randy
& Linda Nelson
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 9:02 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronics info needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Randy & Linda Nelson"
--> <RLNelson-5@peop...>

Hello to all.  New to this list. I need some electronics type people to
help on this one.
I am redoing a 1956 Piper Tri-pacer panel.

I have the reserve fuel option. This option has a 8 gallon tank under
the rear seat. This 8 gal tank feeds a small Facet 12v 30 gph pump,
which feeds into the Rh rear wing tank  fuel line.

The pump  is actuated by a very antique type push pull switch that no
longer works. It is no longer available . So I am free to come up with a
alternate/equivalent type switch.

The specs say to run this pump for 25 to 30 min after the Rh main tank
is empty and fuel valve switched to the left tank.

The 1st problem is the switch is inop as above.
The 2nd problem is that it is very easy to forget about the Res. Fuel
switch and leave the pump running.

So I would like the new switch setup to do the following .

Replace old inop switch with Regular Toggle Switch .

Add Indicator light [ Res. Fuel, yellow] on dash that goes on ,

Pump starts to pump.

Add some sort of electronic timer attached to switch starts . After
25-30 min the timer will shut off the pump . [I have replaced the fuel
lines for this pump and have changed the -3 fuel line to a  -4 line so
it would be nice to have a time adjustment if the pump empty's out the
tank faster.]

The [Res. Fuel yellow] indicator light turns off and pump turns off.

Res fuel switch auto returns to off or sort of half off where you have
to reset the switch to start over.

This pump does not draw a lot of amps 1-3 amps  

   I am ok with electronics and following a schematic  and wiring it.

I am a A+P and am working on my own plane.
Thanks
Randy N

























________________________________  Message 14  ____________________________________


Time: 03:29:58 PM PST US
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>

I've done several instalations too but never 2 A200s together. I dont doubt
it can be done simply with switching but cant really see the usefulness.

The schematic in the handbook isn't of much use and mine contains an error
anyway. As for installing a single A200, I dont support the use of a toggle
switch.  Much better to use a DPDT push-button switch as the PTT. Wire the
two headsets up to the intercom mic pin on the A200 using the NC switch
contacts but with the PIC microphone being switched to the Comms mic pin on
the A200 once the PTT is pressed.  The co-pilot's mic is wired such that the
PTT activation grounds it, while also taking the PTT pin on the A200 to
ground, thus switching the radio from receive to transmit.

All that is probably a little hard to follow and probably demonstrates why
we use schematics?  I have a smple schematic here somewhere, packed up among
my yet to be sorted papers. I can probably find it if that would help.

Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 3:33 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>
>
> Jerry:
>
>  I agree with you that the diagram and instructions are not real clear,
> but I can help. What do you not understand. We can go over it pin by pin.
>
>  First I have to admit you set-up does not make a lot of sense to me. I
> don't understand the use of two ICOM's A200, no intercom or audio panel.
>
>  What kind of plane and use (VFR, IFR). I assume you have a one place
> plane because you really need a VOX intercom. The ICOM has an intercom
> but....
>
>  The built in intercom is really a super simple non-VOX button activated
> intercom that works independent of transmitting (ie either radio or
> intercom but not both at the same time, optional toggle switch needs to be
> installed.)
>
>  As far as audio panel, when you have two COMs it is hard to get around
> but can be done with some simple switches, but you really are limiting the
> usefulness of two COM's. There are some cheap used audio panels on eBay.
> You could make a simple switch to select which radio you want to transmit
> on and feed one radio audio thru the aux input of the other, making one
> the "master". This is non-standard wiring. I understand the need to listen
> to two radios at one time, ATC and ATIS for example. However the elegant
> solution is the Apollo SL40 with two receivers built in, which allows
> listening to two freqs at the same time. Since you can only transmit on
> one Freq at a time why two radios. In the old days it was nice to have two
> radios, so you could store two freqs, one in each radio, but two radios is
> less an advantage with Flip flop freq features of new radios. The nice
> thing is to listen to two freqs which the single Apollo SL40 does.
>
>  Don't get me wrong the ICOM is awesome, but do you really need two
> radios? If you do I would consider a audio panel. If you have a two place
> I would consider an intercom. PS engineering makes a cool little intercom,
> simple audio panel to handle just two coms.
>
>  I sent you an off line email and we can talk about it.
>
>  George (completed two ICOM A200 installations so I am an expert :-) )
>
>  From: Jerry2DT@aol....
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom A200-Help!
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....
>
> Listers,
>
> This question has been asked before by others, but replies are unclear.
> The
> good folks at Icom have put an insufficient (IMO) "wiring diagram" in
> their
> one sheet fold-out instructions. This is not like the ones we see on this
> list, so they must think we are incapable of reading a "real" one.
>
> Now that I've vented... Has anyone out there made a genuine one for this
> radio that I can beg, borrow, steal? My setup is with two of these radios,
> but
>
> with no audio panel.
> This might have been a mistake, trying to save weight, time, panel space,
> and $$$...
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>













________________________________  Message 15  ____________________________________


Time: 03:46:22 PM PST US
From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bden...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bden...>

Has it been considered that the second radio might only be used for receive
only monitoring?




-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...]On Behalf Of Bill
Maxwell
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 5:22 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell"
<wrmaxwell@bigp...>

I've done several instalations too but never 2 A200s together. I dont doubt
it can be done simply with switching but cant really see the usefulness.

The schematic in the handbook isn't of much use and mine contains an error
anyway. As for installing a single A200, I dont support the use of a toggle
switch.  Much better to use a DPDT push-button switch as the PTT. Wire the
two headsets up to the intercom mic pin on the A200 using the NC switch
contacts but with the PIC microphone being switched to the Comms mic pin on
the A200 once the PTT is pressed.  The co-pilot's mic is wired such that the
PTT activation grounds it, while also taking the PTT pin on the A200 to
ground, thus switching the radio from receive to transmit.

All that is probably a little hard to follow and probably demonstrates why
we use schematics?  I have a smple schematic here somewhere, packed up among
my yet to be sorted papers. I can probably find it if that would help.

Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 3:33 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>
>
> Jerry:
>
>  I agree with you that the diagram and instructions are not real clear,
> but I can help. What do you not understand. We can go over it pin by pin.
>
>  First I have to admit you set-up does not make a lot of sense to me. I
> don't understand the use of two ICOM's A200, no intercom or audio panel.
>
>  What kind of plane and use (VFR, IFR). I assume you have a one place
> plane because you really need a VOX intercom. The ICOM has an intercom
> but....
>
>  The built in intercom is really a super simple non-VOX button activated
> intercom that works independent of transmitting (ie either radio or
> intercom but not both at the same time, optional toggle switch needs to be
> installed.)
>
>  As far as audio panel, when you have two COMs it is hard to get around
> but can be done with some simple switches, but you really are limiting the
> usefulness of two COM's. There are some cheap used audio panels on eBay.
> You could make a simple switch to select which radio you want to transmit
> on and feed one radio audio thru the aux input of the other, making one
> the "master". This is non-standard wiring. I understand the need to listen
> to two radios at one time, ATC and ATIS for example. However the elegant
> solution is the Apollo SL40 with two receivers built in, which allows
> listening to two freqs at the same time. Since you can only transmit on
> one Freq at a time why two radios. In the old days it was nice to have two
> radios, so you could store two freqs, one in each radio, but two radios is
> less an advantage with Flip flop freq features of new radios. The nice
> thing is to listen to two freqs which the single Apollo SL40 does.
>
>  Don't get me wrong the ICOM is awesome, but do you really need two
> radios? If you do I would consider a audio panel. If you have a two place
> I would consider an intercom. PS engineering makes a cool little intercom,
> simple audio panel to handle just two coms.
>
>  I sent you an off line email and we can talk about it.
>
>  George (completed two ICOM A200 installations so I am an expert :-) )
>
>  From: Jerry2DT@aol....
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Icom A200-Help!
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....
>
> Listers,
>
> This question has been asked before by others, but replies are unclear.
> The
> good folks at Icom have put an insufficient (IMO) "wiring diagram" in
> their
> one sheet fold-out instructions. This is not like the ones we see on this
> list, so they must think we are incapable of reading a "real" one.
>
> Now that I've vented... Has anyone out there made a genuine one for this
> radio that I can beg, borrow, steal? My setup is with two of these radios,
> but
>
> with no audio panel.
> This might have been a mistake, trying to save weight, time, panel space,
> and $$$...
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>




























________________________________  Message 16  ____________________________________


Time: 07:02:48 PM PST US
From: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton@optu...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics-List: A Better PLB Web Site
Cc: <avionics-list@matr...>, <aeroelectric-list@matr...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: W J R HAMILTON <wjrhamilton@optu...>

Folks,
See my previous post, I rest my case.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton




At 21:42 10/02/2006, bakerocb@cox.... wrote:
>--> Avionics-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox....>
>
>2/10/2006
>
>I wish that I had included this web site in my response to Bob Noffs'
>question about making a ground plane for an ELT antenna.
>
>http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/emerbcns.html
>
>Here is an extract from that site regarding our currently government
>mandated ELT's:
>
>"Unfortunately, these have proven to be highly ineffective. They have a 97%
>false alarm rate, activate properly in only 12% of crashes, and provide no
>identification data."
>
>OC
>
>




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notify us immediately to:
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Dolores capitis non fero. Eos do.



















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