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a : aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com 12 February 2006 • 3:55PM -0500

AeroElectric-List Digest: 30 Msgs - 02/11/06
by AeroElectric-List Digest Server

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                     Total Messages Posted Sat 02/11/06: 30
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------

     1. 05:16 AM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 06:33 AM - Re: antennas  (N395V)
     3. 06:55 AM - MP3 jack  (Alex Peterson)
     4. 08:49 AM - Re: MP3 jack  (Dj Merrill)
     5. 09:21 AM - Z-14 Question  (JOHNATHAN MACY)
     6. 10:51 AM - Re: Icom A200-Help!   (Jerry2DT@aol....)
     7. 11:26 AM - Cameras in airplanes  (Alan K. Adamson)
     8. 12:24 PM - Electronics info needed  ()
     9. 01:05 PM - Re: Cameras in airplanes  (Mickey Coggins)
    10. 01:43 PM - RE : Cameras in airplanes  (Carlos Sa)
    11. 01:51 PM - Re: Cameras in airplanes  (Alan K. Adamson)
    12. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Bill Maxwell)
    13. 03:20 PM - Re: Cameras in airplanes  (Mickey Coggins)
    14. 03:46 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    15. 04:51 PM - High temperature epoxy for ungrounded thermocouple probe  (James Foerster)
    16. 05:54 PM - Crimp or Solder ?  (John Totten)
    17. 05:58 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Ken)
    18. 05:59 PM - Routing thermocouple wires  (James Foerster)
    19. 06:06 PM - Bosch Ice cube relay  (Ron)
    20. 06:37 PM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay  (John D. Heath)
    21. 06:37 PM - Re: Crimp or Solder ?  (Alan K. Adamson)
    22. 07:21 PM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay  (Ron)
    23. 07:30 PM - Re: Routing thermocouple wires  (AI Nut)
    24. 07:41 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Bill Maxwell)
    25. 07:48 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Bill Maxwell)
    26. 09:08 PM - Wiring issues  (rlnelson5)
    27. 09:47 PM - Re: Wiring issues  (Bret Smith)
    28. 10:04 PM - Re: Wiring issues  (rlnelson5)
    29. 10:04 PM - Re: antennas  (James Foerster)
    30. 10:28 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)



________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 05:16:31 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 10:21 AM 2/11/2006 +1100, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell"
><wrmaxwell@bigp...>
>
>I've done several instalations too but never 2 A200s together. I dont doubt
>it can be done simply with switching but cant really see the usefulness.
>
>The schematic in the handbook isn't of much use and mine contains an error
>anyway. As for installing a single A200, I dont support the use of a toggle
>switch.

     What is the error you've identified?

     Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 06:33:18 AM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: antennas
From: "N395V" <N395V@dire...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "N395V" <N395V@dire...>

absolutely marvelous info filled discussion. Read the whole thread this am and
learned a lot.

--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11405#11405


















________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 06:55:21 AM PST US
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@eart...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: MP3 jack

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@eart...>

Anyone know the "pinouts" for an 1/8" male stereo headphone jack?  I'm
connecting an MP3 player in, but don't know this worldwide standard!

Thanks,


Alex Peterson

RV6-A N66AP 712 hours

Maple Grove, MN
















________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 08:49:32 AM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: MP3 jack
From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej...>

Alex Peterson wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@eart...>
>
> Anyone know the "pinouts" for an 1/8" male stereo headphone jack?  I'm
> connecting an MP3 player in, but don't know this worldwide standard!

Hi Alex,
I believe the tip is left channel +,
the middle is right channel +, and the
base is the common.

Check here:
http://www.epanorama.net/links/pc_sound.html

and scroll down to "Audio output connectors".

-Dj

--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/

"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"












________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 09:21:19 AM PST US
From: JOHNATHAN MACY <bushpilot@opto...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Z-14 Question

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: JOHNATHAN MACY <bushpilot@opto...>

Bob,

The primary small gage wiring on the design is 4 AWG. Between the cross feed contactor
and the main battery contactor you show a 2 AWG. This is the only place
on the design that is using a 2 AWG wire. Why does it need to be 2 AWG? Will
4 AWG work?

Thanks,
Johnathan













________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 10:51:38 AM PST US
From: Jerry2DT@aol....
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....


Thanks to all who have answered. I have two reasons for dual A200 Comms.  One
is I simply like a backup, we do a lot of long cross-countries. Secondly,  
when going into Bravo airspace, I like to have 4 freqs loaded and ready. My  
wife, Susan, is a student pilot who likes to handle the radios, and this makes

it easy for both of us. We have a flying 6a also with two comms so are used to

it.. I have received offline help that looks very viable and will report
back,  hopefully with a schematic.

BTW, after all the effort Bob K has gone to teaching all of us about proper  
schematics, I find it ironic that some manufacturers don't follow the same  
convention. Bob, will you please straighten these guys out??? :-)

Regards,
Jerry Cochran

In a message dated 2/11/2006 12:03:51 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
aeroelectric-list-digest@matr... writes:

From:  "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>
Subject: Re:  AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message  posted by: "Bill Maxwell"
<wrmaxwell@bigp...>

I've done  several instalations too but never 2 A200s together. I dont doubt
it can  be done simply with switching but cant really see the  usefulness.
















________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 11:26:38 AM PST US
From: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@high...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cameras in airplanes

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@high...>

Not sure if it was on this list or not, but I've found a pretty good place
for color CCD cameras and DVR's of all flavors, including the new personal
ones.

www.atvresearch.com

Thought I'd pass it along,
Alan














________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 12:24:46 PM PST US
From: <bakerocb@cox....>
Cc: <aeroelectric-list@matr...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electronics info needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox....>


Responding to an AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George
(Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.c...>

<<So Facet pumps can now be used on certified aircraft?....Geee guess us
experimental drivers are not so far out of line cus we've been using
them for years!..:)......skip.........>>

2/11/2006

Hello Frank, In discussing / evaluating fuel pumps one must distinguish
between pumps being used to supply fuel to an operating engine and those
being used to transfer fuel from one tank to another.

Engine driven mechanical fuel pumps are almost invariably used to supply
fuel to an operating engine and would be sized and pressure speced
appropriately.**

Electrically driven fuel pumps (commonly, and sometimes erroneously, called
fuel "boost pumps") can be used to:

1) Provide priming fuel flow prior to engine start.

2) Provide a head source to the inlet of the engine driven fuel pump to
reduce / eliminate the possibility of cavitation in the inlet of the engine
driven fuel pump while the engine is operating.

3) Provide an actual flow of fuel sufficient to operate the engine if the
mechanically driven fuel pump has failed.

4) Transfer fuel from one fuel tank to another.

I am too lazy to research the pre FAR Part 23 requirements for fuel pumps,
but I would bet that the flow requirements for fuel transfer pumps back then
were less than the flow requirements for engine operating pumps just as is
the case in Part 23.955 today. That may be why the Facet pump was acceptable
as a fuel transfer pump back then.

In recent application the type certificated Diamond DA-20 C1 airplane,
powered with the TCM IO-240 B3B engine, initially had a Facet fuel pump
installed for the purpose of priming that fuel injected engine prior to
starting. No transfer activity was involved since the plane had only one
main fuel tank.

The DA-20 C1 POH specifically said that the Facet pump was not intended to
keep the engine operating in case of failure of the engine driven pump, but
the emergency procedures still called for turning the Facet pump on in case
of engine driven pump failure. There was considerable speculation about
whether there would be enough power from the engine to keep the airplane
airborne with the engine driven pump inoperative and only the Facet pump
providing fuel flow. Conducting such a test while airborne would be a little
tricky since it would require failing the engine driven pump in some manner,
but still allowing the Facet pump provided fuel to flow through the engine
driven pump housing to get to the engine.

The electrically driven fuel pump in that airplane has evolved through
several iterations and is now a two stage Dukes turbine pump.

It is pretty important for a pilot to understand his fuel "boost pump"
operation. Some fuel boost pumps are turned on as a matter of procedure
during all take offs and landings as a precautionary measure in case the
engine driven pump should fail. Other fuel boost pumps must not be turned on
while airborne while the engine driven fuel pump is operating normally
because the added flow from the boost pump can drown the engine and result
in insufficient power for flight.

OC

**PS: For example the engine driven fuel pump for a fuel injected Lycoming
engine puts out a higher pressure than the engine driven fuel pump for that
same engine if it is equipped with a carburetor.

PPS: The A-7 aircraft had a complicated fuel transfer system that routed
excess fuel pumped by the engine driven pump through the fuel tanks in
shaped nozzles that created motive fuel flow for transfer purposes. I think
that we lost a few of those planes because of fuel management problems until
pilots learned of the gotchas created by that system.













________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 01:05:02 PM PST US
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cameras in airplanes

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>

> Not sure if it was on this list or not, but I've found a pretty good place
> for color CCD cameras and DVR's of all flavors, including the new personal
> ones.
>
> www.atvresearch.com

Great catalog!  They really have a lot of good stuff, at quite
good prices.  The development I *really* like is the cameras
that have SD cards built in.  This is the first time I've
seen those.  That would be very convenient for in-flight
cameras.  Just apply a bit of voltage, and after the flight
grab the SD card.  Thanks for sharing the link.

--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing


do not archive












________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 01:43:59 PM PST US
From: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yaho...>
Subject: RE : AeroElectric-List: Cameras in airplanes

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Carlos Sa <carlosfsa@yaho...>

Hello, all

Has anybody used TV cameras to inspect areas of difficult access (e.g., within
the wing, tail
cone, etc.)
If so, details would be appreciated.

Carlos
do not archive

--- "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@high...> a crit :

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@high...>
>
> Not sure if it was on this list or not, but I've found a pretty good place
> for color CCD cameras and DVR's of all flavors, including the new personal
> ones.
>
> www.atvresearch.com
>
> Thought I'd pass it along,
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>  
>  
>
>
>
>







Lche-vitrine ou lche-cran ?
magasinage.yahoo.ca












________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 01:51:18 PM PST US
From: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@high...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Cameras in airplanes

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@high...>

Mickey, I didn't see a camera with SD, I saw a new DVR with SD, what page is
on the camera?

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of Mickey
Coggins
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cameras in airplanes

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
--> <mick-matronics@rv8....>

> Not sure if it was on this list or not, but I've found a pretty good
> place for color CCD cameras and DVR's of all flavors, including the
> new personal ones.
>
> www.atvresearch.com

Great catalog!  They really have a lot of good stuff, at quite good prices.
The development I *really* like is the cameras that have SD cards built in.
This is the first time I've seen those.  That would be very convenient for
in-flight cameras.  Just apply a bit of voltage, and after the flight grab
the SD card.  Thanks for sharing the link.

--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing


do not archive


























________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 03:02:22 PM PST US
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>

Been a while since I had looked at it Bob, so I dug the publication from its
hiding place.  It is actually the Service Manual rather than the handbook
that comes with the radio, so it may not be applicable to it, unless the
schematic is repeated there.  I no longer have my copy of  the material that
was packaged with a radio.

Error is in schematic 5-1 and concerns the memory channel and frequency
exchange switching.  As drawn, it calls out a 2 position rocker switch or
similar, with one position offering normally closed contact, the other
normally open. Correct switching actually requires a spring-loaded rocker or
separate momentary push switches, in other words both contacts normally
open, with switching action grounding the required position momentarily.

I reported this finding to Icom Australia and received a printed correction
slip immediately, indicating that it was a known fault.  That was some 7-8
years ago so no doubt it has long been corrected in later reprints and as I
said, it may not occur in the documentation that ships with the radio
anyway.

I should have added to my previous post the obvious suggestion of using a
relay to achieve the required intercom/comms function. That is certainly
easier than trying to install a new PTT swithch with considerable wiring
hanging from it.

Bill- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox....>
>
> At 10:21 AM 2/11/2006 +1100, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell"
>><wrmaxwell@bigp...>
>>
>>I've done several instalations too but never 2 A200s together. I dont
>>doubt
>>it can be done simply with switching but cant really see the usefulness.
>>
>>The schematic in the handbook isn't of much use and mine contains an error
>>anyway. As for installing a single A200, I dont support the use of a
>>toggle
>>switch.
>
>     What is the error you've identified?
>
>     Bob . . .
>
>
>













________________________________  Message 13  ____________________________________


Time: 03:20:06 PM PST US
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Cameras in airplanes

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>

> I didn't see a camera with SD, I saw a new DVR with SD, what page is
> on the camera?

Bottom of page 7.  Still a bit pricey, and with features
we don't need for in-flight cameras, but I doubt this
will be the last camera with a built-in SD card.

Mickey

--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing


do not archive












________________________________  Message 14  ____________________________________


Time: 03:46:59 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 09:58 AM 2/12/2006 +1100, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell"
><wrmaxwell@bigp...>
>
>Been a while since I had looked at it Bob, so I dug the publication from its
>hiding place.  It is actually the Service Manual rather than the handbook
>that comes with the radio, so it may not be applicable to it, unless the
>schematic is repeated there.  I no longer have my copy of  the material that
>was packaged with a radio.
>
>Error is in schematic 5-1 and concerns the memory channel and frequency
>exchange switching.  As drawn, it calls out a 2 position rocker switch or
>similar, with one position offering normally closed contact, the other
>normally open. Correct switching actually requires a spring-loaded rocker or
>separate momentary push switches, in other words both contacts normally
>open, with switching action grounding the required position momentarily.
>
>I reported this finding to Icom Australia and received a printed correction
>slip immediately, indicating that it was a known fault.  That was some 7-8
>years ago so no doubt it has long been corrected in later reprints and as I
>said, it may not occur in the documentation that ships with the radio
>anyway.
>
>I should have added to my previous post the obvious suggestion of using a
>relay to achieve the required intercom/comms function. That is certainly
>easier than trying to install a new PTT swithch with considerable wiring
>hanging from it.

    A real service manual! I'd love to get a copy.

    The latest wiring on the ICOM website shows two normally
    open, pull-downs to ground for those two functions.

    I needed a break from some other things I was supposed to be
    doing today and threw a little drawing package together. It's
    posted at

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/IC-A200_Icom_Installation_Wiring.pdf

    If folks would care to review it and ask any questions that are not
    answered, suggest additional materials be added or have spotted errors,
    I'd be delighted to get he feedback. I've already found a goof. I'd
intended
    to show how to "dummy load" the speaker output with an inset on page
    2. I also note that the real model number is IC-A200 which ought to be
    fixed in several places.

    Dee and I are off to dinner with some old friends who used to work with
    us at Videmation when I was rummaging around in train wrecks instead
    of building airplanes.

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 15  ____________________________________


Time: 04:51:21 PM PST US
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comc...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: High temperature epoxy for ungrounded thermocouple
probe

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comc...>

Listers:

I have a Jabiru 3300 6 cylinder engine that uses spark plugs with a thread diameter
of 0.645 inches.  I wish to use ring terminals of 3/8 inch diameter drilled
out to 15/32=3D0.4688 inches.  (Using a Unibit will allow a clean cut.)  This
will center the probe more accurately than some commercial probes, and it allows
me to make my  thermocouples using type J wire that I bought from Omega.
I don't want any splices, and will custom fit each wire, with an appropriate
service loop.

My question is this.  I wish to insulate the 1/4 inch or less soldered end of the
thermocouple.  Should I use a bit of tefzel insulation, or plumbing Teflon
tape?  Is there a thin ceramic that is used that I never heard of?  The main question
is what sort of potting compound to use.  I haven't researched high temperature
epoxy yet, and would appreciate any suggestions.  I am using a thermocouple
amplifier, and a grounded thermocouple will not work well at all.

Jim Foerster, J400, wiring












________________________________  Message 16  ____________________________________


Time: 05:54:48 PM PST US
From: John Totten <john@tott...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimp or Solder ?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Totten <john@tott...>


Can anyone tell me the standard for aircraft wiring - Crimp
or Solder?















________________________________  Message 17  ____________________________________


Time: 05:58:03 PM PST US
From: Ken <klehman@albe...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albe...>

It wasn't obvious to me at first but the dimmer connection actually
feeds the incandescent panel lighting so it might make sense to feed
that pin from an instrument light dimmer if convenient.
Ken

Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
>
>At 09:58 AM 2/12/2006 +1100, you wrote:
>
>  
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell"
>><wrmaxwell@bigp...>
>>
>>Been a while since I had looked at it Bob, so I dug the publication from its
>>hiding place.  It is actually the Service Manual rather than the handbook
>>that comes with the radio, so it may not be applicable to it, unless the
>>schematic is repeated there.  I no longer have my copy of  the material that
>>was packaged with a radio.
>>
>>Error is in schematic 5-1 and concerns the memory channel and frequency
>>exchange switching.  As drawn, it calls out a 2 position rocker switch or
>>similar, with one position offering normally closed contact, the other
>>normally open. Correct switching actually requires a spring-loaded rocker or
>>separate momentary push switches, in other words both contacts normally
>>open, with switching action grounding the required position momentarily.
>>
>>I reported this finding to Icom Australia and received a printed correction
>>slip immediately, indicating that it was a known fault.  That was some 7-8
>>years ago so no doubt it has long been corrected in later reprints and as I
>>said, it may not occur in the documentation that ships with the radio
>>anyway.
>>
>>I should have added to my previous post the obvious suggestion of using a
>>relay to achieve the required intercom/comms function. That is certainly
>>easier than trying to install a new PTT swithch with considerable wiring
>>hanging from it.
>>    
>>
>
>    A real service manual! I'd love to get a copy.
>
>    The latest wiring on the ICOM website shows two normally
>    open, pull-downs to ground for those two functions.
>
>    I needed a break from some other things I was supposed to be
>    doing today and threw a little drawing package together. It's
>    posted at
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/IC-A200_Icom_Installation_Wiring.pdf
>
>    If folks would care to review it and ask any questions that are not
>    answered, suggest additional materials be added or have spotted errors,
>    I'd be delighted to get he feedback. I've already found a goof. I'd
>intended
>    to show how to "dummy load" the speaker output with an inset on page
>    2. I also note that the real model number is IC-A200 which ought to be
>    fixed in several places.
>
>    Dee and I are off to dinner with some old friends who used to work with
>    us at Videmation when I was rummaging around in train wrecks instead
>    of building airplanes.
>
>    Bob . . .
>
>  
>















________________________________  Message 18  ____________________________________


Time: 05:59:59 PM PST US
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comc...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Routing thermocouple wires

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comc...>

Bob, or anyone:

Is it reasonable to route thermocouple wires along the spark plug wires?  I will
be using a thermocouple amplifier with a + and - 15 volt supply.  The spec sheet
for the AD596AH says to limit common mode input voltages to less than the
power supply band.  One side of the thermocouple is connected to the power supply
common, and I will be using insulated probes to avoid the problem of multiple
ground paths and associated voltage offsets.  The probe in a ring terminal
under the spark plug-see my prior post about this.  Neither the spark plug wires
nor the thermocouple wire is shielded.  Since one side of the thermocouple
is grounded to power common, the driving impedance of this source should only
be the resistance of the wire itself, which has a resistance of less than 3
ohms.   On the Jabiru interest group on Yahoo, one person has run the TC wire
with the spark without problem.  For design reasons which involve separate "ram
air" ducts over each bank of cylinders, routing with the spark plugs would be
the easiest.  Anyone see a problem with this?

Jim Foerster, J400, wiring












________________________________  Message 19  ____________________________________


Time: 06:06:59 PM PST US
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>

I have looked at the schematics on the search for these but could not
understand which pin on the relay is which, also tried to find it on the web
to no avail.  There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a. I want to use
this type of relay to control my flaps, reflexor, ailerons, they all will
have a motor that reverses if you change the pos and neg terminals. Sorry
for being so electronically dump.  

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html
















________________________________  Message 20  ____________________________________


Time: 06:37:10 PM PST US
From: "John D. Heath" <altoq@cebr...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <altoq@cebr...>

Ron,

Remember Europeans switch everything to ground, 30 is always ground no
matter what the circuit. 85 and 86 are the armature or coil. 87 is normally
open to 30 and 87a is normally closed to 30.

John D.

DO NOT ARCHIVE

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
  There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a>













________________________________  Message 21  ____________________________________


Time: 06:37:11 PM PST US
From: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@high...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Crimp or Solder ?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@high...>

As long as you use a good crimper (sheesh volumes have been written about
that on this list), a "gas tight" crimp is as good as a solder and in some
ways better.

Less time consuming and wont wick solder farther into the wire than is need
leaving an area for the wire to break from vibration.

My vote, crimp and never look back, but use a *good* crimper and die set
made for the task

Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of John
Totten
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimp or Solder ?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Totten <john@tott...>


Can anyone tell me the standard for aircraft wiring - Crimp or Solder?





























________________________________  Message 22  ____________________________________


Time: 07:21:08 PM PST US
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>

John, thanks for the reply however do you mean if I put my ground to 30, one
lead from the motor to 85 and the other to 86, then what do I do with 87 and
87a?

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of John D.
Heath
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath"
<altoq@cebr...>

Ron,

Remember Europeans switch everything to ground, 30 is always ground no
matter what the circuit. 85 and 86 are the armature or coil. 87 is normally
open to 30 and 87a is normally closed to 30.

John D.

DO NOT ARCHIVE

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
  There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a>





























________________________________  Message 23  ____________________________________


Time: 07:30:34 PM PST US
From: AI Nut <ainut@hiwa...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Routing thermocouple wires

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwa...>

James, let me strongly suggest you do not run tc wire alongside the
spark plug wire.  With the large voltages carried in the plug wire, if
there is ever the slightest short, you AD chips are toast, along with
possibly whatever you're reading them with.
Secondly, you need to run a separate ground for each tc all the way to
the AD chips, not use a common ground.  Talk to the AD engineers if this
is questionable to you.  Yeah, I know I just doubled your firewall
penetration wires, but it has to be done.  I didn't like it either 8-).

David M.


James Foerster wrote:

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comc...>
>
> Bob, or anyone:
>
> Is it reasonable to route thermocouple wires along the spark plug wires?  I will
be using a thermocouple amplifier with a + and - 15 volt supply.  The spec
sheet for the AD596AH says to limit common mode input voltages to less than the
power supply band.  One side of the thermocouple is connected to the power
supply common, and I will be using insulated probes to avoid the problem of multiple
ground paths and associated voltage offsets.  The probe in a ring terminal
under the spark plug-see my prior post about this.  Neither the spark plug
wires nor the thermocouple wire is shielded.  Since one side of the thermocouple
is grounded to power common, the driving impedance of this source should only
be the resistance of the wire itself, which has a resistance of less than
3 ohms.   On the Jabiru interest group on Yahoo, one person has run the TC wire
with the spark without problem.  For design reasons which involve separate "ram
air" ducts over each bank of cylinders, routing
wi!
>  th the spark plugs would be the easiest.  Anyone see a problem with this?
>
> Jim Foerster, J400, wiring
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>  
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>












________________________________  Message 24  ____________________________________


Time: 07:41:38 PM PST US
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>

I was an Icom dealer at the time I got my service Manual but I suggest that
you contact Icom US and ask for a copy.  I suspect they will know who you
are and of your influence in our movement.  If not, they would be well
advised to find out!

I'll take a look at your drawing after I clear this email backlog.

cheers
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox....>
>
> At 09:58 AM 2/12/2006 +1100, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell"
>><wrmaxwell@bigp...>
>>
>>Been a while since I had looked at it Bob, so I dug the publication from
>>its
>>hiding place.  It is actually the Service Manual rather than the handbook
>>that comes with the radio, so it may not be applicable to it, unless the
>>schematic is repeated there.  I no longer have my copy of  the material
>>that
>>was packaged with a radio.
>>
>>Error is in schematic 5-1 and concerns the memory channel and frequency
>>exchange switching.  As drawn, it calls out a 2 position rocker switch or
>>similar, with one position offering normally closed contact, the other
>>normally open. Correct switching actually requires a spring-loaded rocker
>>or
>>separate momentary push switches, in other words both contacts normally
>>open, with switching action grounding the required position momentarily.
>>
>>I reported this finding to Icom Australia and received a printed
>>correction
>>slip immediately, indicating that it was a known fault.  That was some 7-8
>>years ago so no doubt it has long been corrected in later reprints and as
>>I
>>said, it may not occur in the documentation that ships with the radio
>>anyway.
>>
>>I should have added to my previous post the obvious suggestion of using a
>>relay to achieve the required intercom/comms function. That is certainly
>>easier than trying to install a new PTT swithch with considerable wiring
>>hanging from it.
>
>    A real service manual! I'd love to get a copy.
>
>    The latest wiring on the ICOM website shows two normally
>    open, pull-downs to ground for those two functions.
>
>    I needed a break from some other things I was supposed to be
>    doing today and threw a little drawing package together. It's
>    posted at
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/IC-A200_Icom_Installation_Wiring.pdf
>
>    If folks would care to review it and ask any questions that are not
>    answered, suggest additional materials be added or have spotted errors,
>    I'd be delighted to get he feedback. I've already found a goof. I'd
> intended
>    to show how to "dummy load" the speaker output with an inset on page
>    2. I also note that the real model number is IC-A200 which ought to be
>    fixed in several places.
>
>    Dee and I are off to dinner with some old friends who used to work with
>    us at Videmation when I was rummaging around in train wrecks instead
>    of building airplanes.
>
>    Bob . . .
>
>
>













________________________________  Message 25  ____________________________________


Time: 07:48:12 PM PST US
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>

Yes Ken, although I have never had the need to do so as none of my
installations were in Night VFR or IFR aircraft.  I usually wired that pin
pair to the 13.8 voltt supply to provide an additional indication that the
radio was powered up.

Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albe...>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albe...>
>
> It wasn't obvious to me at first but the dimmer connection actually
> feeds the incandescent panel lighting so it might make sense to feed
> that pin from an instrument light dimmer if convenient.
> Ken
>
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>><nuckollsr@cox....>
>>
>>At 09:58 AM 2/12/2006 +1100, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell"
>>><wrmaxwell@bigp...>
>>>
>>>Been a while since I had looked at it Bob, so I dug the publication from
>>>its
>>>hiding place.  It is actually the Service Manual rather than the handbook
>>>that comes with the radio, so it may not be applicable to it, unless the
>>>schematic is repeated there.  I no longer have my copy of  the material
>>>that
>>>was packaged with a radio.
>>>
>>>Error is in schematic 5-1 and concerns the memory channel and frequency
>>>exchange switching.  As drawn, it calls out a 2 position rocker switch or
>>>similar, with one position offering normally closed contact, the other
>>>normally open. Correct switching actually requires a spring-loaded rocker
>>>or
>>>separate momentary push switches, in other words both contacts normally
>>>open, with switching action grounding the required position momentarily.
>>>
>>>I reported this finding to Icom Australia and received a printed
>>>correction
>>>slip immediately, indicating that it was a known fault.  That was some
>>>7-8
>>>years ago so no doubt it has long been corrected in later reprints and as
>>>I
>>>said, it may not occur in the documentation that ships with the radio
>>>anyway.
>>>
>>>I should have added to my previous post the obvious suggestion of using a
>>>relay to achieve the required intercom/comms function. That is certainly
>>>easier than trying to install a new PTT swithch with considerable wiring
>>>hanging from it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>    A real service manual! I'd love to get a copy.
>>
>>    The latest wiring on the ICOM website shows two normally
>>    open, pull-downs to ground for those two functions.
>>
>>    I needed a break from some other things I was supposed to be
>>    doing today and threw a little drawing package together. It's
>>    posted at
>>
>>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/IC-A200_Icom_Installation_Wiring.pdf
>>
>>    If folks would care to review it and ask any questions that are not
>>    answered, suggest additional materials be added or have spotted
>> errors,
>>    I'd be delighted to get he feedback. I've already found a goof. I'd
>>intended
>>    to show how to "dummy load" the speaker output with an inset on page
>>    2. I also note that the real model number is IC-A200 which ought to be
>>    fixed in several places.
>>
>>    Dee and I are off to dinner with some old friends who used to work
>> with
>>    us at Videmation when I was rummaging around in train wrecks instead
>>    of building airplanes.
>>
>>    Bob . . .
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>













________________________________  Message 26  ____________________________________


Time: 09:08:50 PM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring issues
From: "rlnelson5" <rlnelson-5@peop...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rlnelson5" <rlnelson-5@peop...>

Hello
Redoing my lower dash panel.

  1  I have a Whalen strobe powerpack that can handle either 1,2,3 or 4 strobes.
It is  14v 7a unit . I have 2 wingtip , 1 tail and 1 red strobe/ beacon.

My question is if I could use a [ 2-10 ?] switch to control this strobe power
unit and have the red beacon turn on the middle switch position  and then add
the other 3 strobes at the top switch position?
If that would not do it is there some other arrangment to do it?    

2 I have the B + C instrament lighting dimmer setup .
  I have Inst. lights, couple of post lights  Radio lights ,Lower dash panel lights
, and 2 over the shoulder lights. I have a  cabin ovhd light as well.

I am using Fiber light  units on most instraments and on the lower dash. The lower
dash units  are a long fiber optic strip that has lettering on them to label
the lower dash panel items.

How should I handle this whole setup?
  I only have one dimmer pot .
Do I need some type of rotary switch?
Regular switches or wire the ovhd to a seperate switch?  ? wire them all together?


Any ideas would be helfull

thanks  l




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11546#11546


















________________________________  Message 27  ____________________________________


Time: 09:47:12 PM PST US
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds....>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wiring issues

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bret Smith" <smithhb@tds....>

"The lower dash units  are a long fiber optic strip that has lettering on
them to label the lower dash panel items."

Do you have a picture of this?  Manufacturer?


Bret Smith
RV-9A (91314)
Mineral Bluff, GA
www.FlightInnovations.com

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of rlnelson5
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:05 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wiring issues

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rlnelson5"
--> <rlnelson-5@peop...>

Hello
Redoing my lower dash panel.

  1  I have a Whalen strobe powerpack that can handle either 1,2,3 or 4
strobes. It is  14v 7a unit . I have 2 wingtip , 1 tail and 1 red strobe/
beacon.

My question is if I could use a [ 2-10 ?] switch to control this strobe
power unit and have the red beacon turn on the middle switch position  and
then add the other 3 strobes at the top switch position?
If that would not do it is there some other arrangment to do it?    

2 I have the B + C instrament lighting dimmer setup .
  I have Inst. lights, couple of post lights  Radio lights ,Lower dash panel
lights , and 2 over the shoulder lights. I have a  cabin ovhd light as well.

I am using Fiber light  units on most instraments and on the lower dash.
The lower dash units  are a long fiber optic strip that has lettering on
them to label the lower dash panel items.

How should I handle this whole setup?
  I only have one dimmer pot .
Do I need some type of rotary switch?
Regular switches or wire the ovhd to a seperate switch?  ? wire them all
together?

Any ideas would be helfull

thanks  l




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11546#11546






























________________________________  Message 28  ____________________________________


Time: 10:04:28 PM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wiring issues
From: "rlnelson5" <rlnelson-5@peop...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "rlnelson5" <rlnelson-5@peop...>

Sure  , look in the Aircraft Spruce catalog. Made by Fiberlite. I have the 2004-5
version , on page 423 . It is called Illuminated Labeling




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=11553#11553


















________________________________  Message 29  ____________________________________


Time: 10:04:28 PM PST US
From: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comc...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: antennas

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster" <jmfpublic@comc...>

The problem of the ELT anntenna in a wood and fabric plane, or a composite one,
is discussed in Jim Weir's RST anntenna book.  He suggests two dipoles, driven
by the same coax, and that is what I plan to do.  The ground plane is best suited
for an aluminum plane.  The configuration looks like the letter X with one
pair of legs about 1/3 of the other.  I don't recall the exact dimenions, something
on the order of 7 inches and 21 inches.  Jim Weir suggests copper tape,
but I prefer 0.032 or 0.016 thick brass as being much easier to handle and
solder.  This is available in the hardware store in widths of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and
1 inch.  Best to tune this with an antenna analyser, of course.

Jim Foerster, J400, wiring












________________________________  Message 30  ____________________________________


Time: 10:28:15 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 08:26 PM 2/11/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albe...>
>
>It wasn't obvious to me at first but the dimmer connection actually
>feeds the incandescent panel lighting so it might make sense to feed
>that pin from an instrument light dimmer if convenient.
>Ken

   From what I understand about the dimmer from the instructions,
   it's a bright/dim discrete. In other words, lighting goes to half
   bright when a voltage is applied to the dimmer pin. Does anyone
   have better data than that?

   Bob . . .


















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