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a : aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com 13 February 2006 • 3:55PM -0500

AeroElectric-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 02/12/06
by AeroElectric-List Digest Server

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                           AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
                                      ---
                     Total Messages Posted Sun 02/12/06: 33
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------

     1. 04:26 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay  (sportav8r@aol....)
     2. 05:12 AM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Ken)
     3. 06:21 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay  (John D. Heath)
     4. 07:32 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay  (John Schroeder)
     5. 07:32 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay  (Ron)
     6. 07:41 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay  (Ron)
     7. 09:10 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06  (Lee Logan)
     8. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (two radios, internal intercom and pin-out detail)  ()
     9. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06  (Bill Denton)
    10. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (Bobs diagram errata, ICOM corrections)  ()
    11. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06  (David Lloyd)
    12. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06  (John Schroeder)
    13. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06  (Bruce Gray)
    14. 09:55 AM - Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Mike Lehman)
    15. 10:36 AM - King KT - 76 Transponder "Reply" light question....  (David Lloyd)
    16. 10:36 AM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay  (Steven DiNieri)
    17. 12:37 PM - Re: A200-Help  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    18. 12:37 PM -   (mchristian@cane...)
    19. 12:42 PM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay  (chaztuna@adel...)
    20. 12:52 PM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    21. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06  (Brian Lloyd)
    22. 01:41 PM - Satellite versus Cell Phone, Was: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06  (BobsV35B@aol....)
    23. 02:32 PM - Re: Crimp or Solder ?  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    24. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: A200-Help  (Bill Denton)
    25. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: A200-Help  (Ken)
    26. 04:05 PM - Re: Bosch Ice cube relay  (Ron)
    27. 05:46 PM - Re: 3.5 MM stereo plug  (Steven Anderson)
    28. 08:19 PM - TURBOCAD  (RV4WGH@aol....)
    29. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: antennas  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    30. 08:46 PM - Re: High temperature epoxy for ungrounded thermocouple probe  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    31. 08:48 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    32. 10:33 PM - Panel lighting questions  (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
    33. 10:51 PM - Re: Satellite versus Cell Phone, Was: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06  (Brian Lloyd)



________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 04:26:58 AM PST US
From: sportav8r@aol....
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol....

Ron, you mentioned reversing a motor... can't be done with a SPDT Bosch relay.
You'll need two poles, in your case that's two relays.  "Armature" is the coil,
the part that gets current flow through it to pull the relay closed.  The common
contact is, I believe, #30, and the others are the N.O. and N.C. contacts.
If that's beyond what you can follow, you are definitely going to need a picture
(schematuc) to look at.  Ditto for the DC motor reversing concept.

-Bill B

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron <rondefly@rtri...>
Sent: Sat, 11 Feb 2006 19:16:16 -0800
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>

John, thanks for the reply however do you mean if I put my ground to 30, one
lead from the motor to 85 and the other to 86, then what do I do with 87 and
87a?

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of John D.
Heath
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath"
<altoq@cebr...>

Ron,

Remember Europeans switch everything to ground, 30 is always ground no
matter what the circuit. 85 and 86 are the armature or coil. 87 is normally
open to 30 and 87a is normally closed to 30.

John D.

DO NOT ARCHIVE

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
  There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a>







































________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 05:12:43 AM PST US
From: Ken <klehman@albe...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albe...>

I thought that too until I powered it up and then opened the case to
check the light bulbs. My unit was purchased last April but I doubt that
there is more than one version of lighting. Not the greatest instructions.
Ken

Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
>
>At 08:26 PM 2/11/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>  
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albe...>
>>
>>It wasn't obvious to me at first but the dimmer connection actually
>>feeds the incandescent panel lighting so it might make sense to feed
>>that pin from an instrument light dimmer if convenient.
>>Ken
>>    
>>
>
>   From what I understand about the dimmer from the instructions,
>   it's a bright/dim discrete. In other words, lighting goes to half
>   bright when a voltage is applied to the dimmer pin. Does anyone
>   have better data than that?
>
>   Bob . . .
>  
>














________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 06:21:35 AM PST US
From: "John D. Heath" <altoq@cebr...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <altoq@cebr...>

Ron,

No, 85 and 86 are the contacts that actuate the relay, 30, 87, and 87a are
all the switch.  87a is normaly closed to 30. When voltage (12VDC) is
applied accross 85 and 86, 87a and 30 open and 87 closes to 30.   Don,t try
to say that too fast. :~p  For what you want to do you need two relays.

John D.

---- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:16 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay
















________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 07:32:59 AM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@peri...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@peri...>

Ron -

I have a schematic for running the flap motor of our Lancair ES. It is a  
reversing scheme using two relays. It is in .pdf format. Let me know if  
you want it and I'll email it to you.

Cheers,

John.

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath"  
> <altoq@cebr...>
>
> Ron,
>
> No, 85 and 86 are the contacts that actuate the relay, 30, 87, and 87a  
> are
> all the switch.  87a is normaly closed to 30. When voltage (12VDC) is
> applied accross 85 and 86, 87a and 30 open and 87 closes to 30.   Don,t  
> try
> to say that too fast. :~p  For what you want to do you need two relays.
>
> John D.
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matr...>
> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:16 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay













________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 07:32:59 AM PST US
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>

Thanks all for the replies, I will try that today. I did buy 6 of the
relays.

Ron T

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of John D.
Heath
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath"
<altoq@cebr...>

Ron,

No, 85 and 86 are the contacts that actuate the relay, 30, 87, and 87a are
all the switch.  87a is normaly closed to 30. When voltage (12VDC) is
applied accross 85 and 86, 87a and 30 open and 87 closes to 30.   Don,t try
to say that too fast. :~p  For what you want to do you need two relays.

John D.

---- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:16 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay
































________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 07:41:32 AM PST US
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>

John, thanks for being so patient with me, I tried it that way on the bench
and it works just like you said.

Ron T

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of John D.
Heath
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:19 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath"
<altoq@cebr...>

Ron,

No, 85 and 86 are the contacts that actuate the relay, 30, 87, and 87a are
all the switch.  87a is normaly closed to 30. When voltage (12VDC) is
applied accross 85 and 86, 87a and 30 open and 87 closes to 30.   Don,t try
to say that too fast. :~p  For what you want to do you need two relays.

John D.

---- Original Message -----
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:16 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay
































________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 09:10:37 AM PST US
From: Lee Logan <leeloganster@gmai...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lee Logan <leeloganster@gmai...>

I carry my cell phone with me (Blackberry) on all flights.  Assuming you're
not incapacitated, seems to me that is a pretty good backup given it has
voice, text, email, and internet capability all in one.  Do you suppose my
US coverage would be typically sufficient for this to be a reasonable
addition to the rescue arsenal or is national coverage inadequate?  I have a
fair number of "blank spots" around here, but I live in rural SC.  My
Blackberry works fine on overseas trips but not everywhere in the US.  Go
figure.  Are others relying on their cell phones?  If 12% effectiveness is
an accurate figure for ELT's, I think my Blackberry beats that hands down,
warts and all.

ELT's were mandated before the widespread availability of cell phones,
right?  Why don't we petition the FAA (through the EAA?) for relief from the
ELT requirement as long as you carry an operative cell phone on your person?













________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 09:20:43 AM PST US
From: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re:  Re: Icom A200-Help! (two radios, internal intercom
and pin-out detail)

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>

http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=icoma20035xz.jpg
  
  Here is my pin out explanation of the ICOM A200. The second diagram shows the
installation wiring if you utilize the internal intercom.
  
  
  
  http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blockicoma5sy.jpg
  
  This is my idea for wiring in two ICOM A200 with out audio panel. The first uses
a $9.00 audio mixer and a few toggles to select audio. The second is easy,
with just feeding the "B" radio thru the "A" radio, but requires you to use the
volume controls to select which radio audio to listen to.
  
  
  George
  




---------------------------------












________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 09:34:46 AM PST US
From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bden...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bden...>

"Assuming you're not incapacitated..."

That's an awfully broad assumption, but it doesn't apply to an ELT.





-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...]On Behalf Of Lee
Logan
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs -
02/10/06


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lee Logan <leeloganster@gmai...>

I carry my cell phone with me (Blackberry) on all flights.  Assuming you're
not incapacitated, seems to me that is a pretty good backup given it has
voice, text, email, and internet capability all in one.  Do you suppose my
US coverage would be typically sufficient for this to be a reasonable
addition to the rescue arsenal or is national coverage inadequate?  I have a
fair number of "blank spots" around here, but I live in rural SC.  My
Blackberry works fine on overseas trips but not everywhere in the US.  Go
figure.  Are others relying on their cell phones?  If 12% effectiveness is
an accurate figure for ELT's, I think my Blackberry beats that hands down,
warts and all.

ELT's were mandated before the widespread availability of cell phones,
right?  Why don't we petition the FAA (through the EAA?) for relief from the
ELT requirement as long as you carry an operative cell phone on your person?




























________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 09:47:29 AM PST US
From: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! (Bobs diagram errata, ICOM
corrections)

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>

Bob, very nice diagrams, much nicer than mine. Two comments.....

  "I'd  intended to show how to "dummy load" the speaker
output with an inset on page 2."

Regarding  comment about speaker dummy load -  I called ICOM and
they told me emphatically that it was not necessary to connect
anything to the speaker load, so your diagram is correct. Other than
that I think we had similar ideas.

  
The second item is the internal back light. You show it connect to the
nav lights as ON and OFF deal. It does seem like this from the
text, like it is a ON/half/OFF deal from the text. Again a call to ICOM  
says back lighting is affected by voltage. In other words light intensity
is variable and proportional when connected to a variable voltage.

  
  ICOM errata:
The previous post that ICOM shows the incorrect optional
switches for the Yoke mounted channel and frequency exchange
switches, I believe they have corrected it. They show spring
loaded DTSP toggle, normally in center open position and
momentary to ground pin L or 12. The optional switch choice is  
two single momentary SPST switches to ground.


George


----------------------
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls,
III"  
<nuckollsr@cox....>

At 09:58 AM 2/12/2006 +1100, you wrote:


    A real service manual! I'd love to get a copy.

    The latest wiring on the ICOM website shows two normally
    open, pull-downs to ground for those two functions.

    I needed a break from some other things I was supposed to
be
    doing today and threw a little drawing package together. It's
    posted at

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data/IC-A200_Icom_Installation_Wiring.pdf

    If folks would care to review it and ask any questions that
are not
    answered, suggest additional materials be added or have
spotted  
errors, I'd be delighted to get he feedback. I've already found a
goof. I'd intended    to show how to "dummy load" the speaker
output with an inset on page 2. I also note that the real model
number is IC-A200 which ought to be fixed in several places.

    Bob . . .

  


---------------------------------
Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.












________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 09:47:29 AM PST US
From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@char...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@char...>

We just had a recent incident where carrying a cell phone saved the day.
A pilot just got an Arrow out of maintenance and was flying back to our
field.
On calling in he noted that he had no comm's and little or no battery or
charge.

He also could not get 3 lights on his gear down.  He flew over the field
several times and used his cell phone to call the FBO phone to explain his
problem.  The FBO had a guy standing next to the strip to monitor his gear
extension.  It looked like the main gear was down but, the nose was not.
Between the two and making multiple slow passes over the field he was able
to shake the nose gear down and via the cell phone figures he had the best
info that he was going to  get.  Luckily, the Piper gear is a gravity down
gear.

He probably made the most perfect greased landing and held the nose gear off
as long as possible.  Then, did something that I thought was pretty smart.
He coasted to a full stop and made the most gently of taxi turns just in
case one of the mains was not really over center and locked.  It would be
pretty bad to make a perfect landing and then, taxi turn too abrupt and
collapse a main gear from sideloads.
All done with the help of a cell phone.
D


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Logan" <leeloganster@gmai...>
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:05 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lee Logan
> <leeloganster@gmai...>
>
> I carry my cell phone with me (Blackberry) on all flights.  Assuming
> you're
> not incapacitated, seems to me that is a pretty good backup given it has
> voice, text, email, and internet capability all in one.  Do you suppose my
> US coverage would be typically sufficient for this to be a reasonable
> addition to the rescue arsenal or is national coverage inadequate?  I have
> a
> fair number of "blank spots" around here, but I live in rural SC.  My
> Blackberry works fine on overseas trips but not everywhere in the US.  Go
> figure.  Are others relying on their cell phones?  If 12% effectiveness is
> an accurate figure for ELT's, I think my Blackberry beats that hands down,
> warts and all.
>
> ELT's were mandated before the widespread availability of cell phones,
> right?  Why don't we petition the FAA (through the EAA?) for relief from
> the
> ELT requirement as long as you carry an operative cell phone on your
> person?
>
>
>













________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 09:47:29 AM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06
From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@peri...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@peri...>

Lee -

You make this implicit assumption on which to base an argument to change  
the FAA's mind: "I am conscious and able to turn on my blackberry or cell  
phone, and to connect and to describe my location ... ". If you are not  
capable of the above and need rescue to stay alive, or your family needs  
your body for closure, the whole process needs to be automatic and more  
accurate. That's the answer the FAA will send back. Now, how to do what  
they want in a way that will be far more reliable than the method mandated  
now, and will not break our banks, is the problem at hand. There is a much  
better solution, but it costs a lot more and so far, a lot of folks have  
rejected it because of cost.

John Schroeder


On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 12:05:05 -0500, Lee Logan <leeloganster@gmai...>  
wrote:

> ELT's were mandated before the widespread availability of cell phones,  
> right?  Why don't we petition the FAA (through the EAA?) for relief from  
> the ELT requirement as long as you carry an operative cell phone on your  
> person?



--














________________________________  Message 13  ____________________________________


Time: 09:48:44 AM PST US
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glas...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glas...>

As macabre as it may sound, they need to be able to find the bodies.

Bruce
www.glasair.org


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of Lee Logan
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:05 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lee Logan <leeloganster@gmai...>

I carry my cell phone with me (Blackberry) on all flights.  Assuming you're
not incapacitated, seems to me that is a pretty good backup given it has
voice, text, email, and internet capability all in one.  Do you suppose my
US coverage would be typically sufficient for this to be a reasonable
addition to the rescue arsenal or is national coverage inadequate?  I have a
fair number of "blank spots" around here, but I live in rural SC.  My
Blackberry works fine on overseas trips but not everywhere in the US.  Go
figure.  Are others relying on their cell phones?  If 12% effectiveness is
an accurate figure for ELT's, I think my Blackberry beats that hands down,
warts and all.

ELT's were mandated before the widespread availability of cell phones,
right?  Why don't we petition the FAA (through the EAA?) for relief from the
ELT requirement as long as you carry an operative cell phone on your person?















________________________________  Message 14  ____________________________________


Time: 09:55:34 AM PST US
From: "Mike Lehman" <lehmans@symp...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike Lehman" <lehmans@symp...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox....>

At 08:26 PM 2/11/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albe...>
>
>It wasn't obvious to me at first but the dimmer connection actually
>feeds the incandescent panel lighting so it might make sense to feed
>that pin from an instrument light dimmer if convenient.
>Ken

   From what I understand about the dimmer from the instructions,
   it's a bright/dim discrete. In other words, lighting goes to half
   bright when a voltage is applied to the dimmer pin. Does anyone
   have better data than that?

   Bob . . .

My experience with 2 Icom A200 installs (one TSO'd and one non-TSO'd) is
that the radio lighting will dim with the instrument panel light rheostat
control.  It never occurred to me to connect it any other way.

Mike













________________________________  Message 15  ____________________________________


Time: 10:36:19 AM PST US
From: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@char...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: King KT - 76 Transponder "Reply" light question....

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon@char...>

My KT-76TSO transponder reply light has always been too dim.

This reply indicator is controlled by a light sensor resistance device.

Is there a way to adjust its sensitivity...???

The transponder is center stack mounted and near the bottom.  I believe that it
is interpreting that it is evening or night and lowers the illumination.  I can
shine a flash light into the photo sensor and get a much brighter reply indicator.

I don't want to yank it out without someone telling me where to look for the adjustment.
Thanks,
David












________________________________  Message 16  ____________________________________


Time: 10:36:19 AM PST US
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve@adel...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve@adel...>

Here's a neat little pdf that shows some cool relay setups. The reverse pole
stuff that would pertain to a reversing motor is on the last two pages..
Steve dinieri

http://www.tune-town.com/relays.pdf






I have looked at the schematics on the search for these but could not
understand which pin on the relay is which, also tried to find it on the web
to no avail.  There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a. I want to use
this type of relay to control my flaps, reflexor, ailerons, they all will
have a motor that reverses if you change the pos and neg terminals. Sorry
for being so electronically dump.  

http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html































________________________________  Message 17  ____________________________________


Time: 12:37:50 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200-Help

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 09:47 AM 2/12/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>
>
>Bob, very nice diagrams, much nicer than mine. Two comments.....
>
>   "I'd  intended to show how to "dummy load" the speaker
>output with an inset on page 2."
>
>Regarding  comment about speaker dummy load -  I called ICOM and
>they told me emphatically that it was not necessary to connect
>anything to the speaker load, so your diagram is correct. Other than
>that I think we had similar ideas.

        Very good. I've deleted that feature from Note 3.

>
>The second item is the internal back light. You show it connect to the
>nav lights as ON and OFF deal. It does seem like this from the
>text, like it is a ON/half/OFF deal from the text. Again a call to ICOM
>says back lighting is affected by voltage. In other words light intensity
>is variable and proportional when connected to a variable voltage.

      Hmmmm . . . it would be nice then if they'd included the
      the current draw of this lead for allowing one to size
      their dimmer requirements. If you or anyone else can
      provide a full-bright dimmer lead load value, I'd
      be pleased to add it to the drawings.

>
>
>   ICOM errata:
>The previous post that ICOM shows the incorrect optional
>switches for the Yoke mounted channel and frequency exchange
>switches, I believe they have corrected it. They show spring
>loaded DTSP toggle, normally in center open position and
>momentary to ground pin L or 12. The optional switch choice is
>two single momentary SPST switches to ground.

      Yeah, the ICOM data I found seemed to have the wiring
      right. I just showed the spring-loaded-center-off version.

      I'll hold off posting Rev -B- with hopes that someone can
      get a dimmer load current value.

      Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 18  ____________________________________


Time: 12:37:51 PM PST US
From: mchristian@cane...

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: mchristian@cane...

I have the TCM IO240-B3B in my Shekari.  I have tried three fuel pumps and finally
am ending up with the facet 40107.  The reason I have tried three pumps was
due to lack of sufficient information regarding the Fuel Injection sytem design
and fuel requirements of the engine. I learned by trial and error with a little
help:  an electric pump putting out 3psi and 30gph wouldn't make any pressure
at the fuel distributor (too much pressure loss in the system).  I then
tried a FI pump putting out 45psi and 45gph (thinking I could possible regulate
it down); this overpowered my gascolator which had to be replaced.  Too much
pressure and flow caused priming issues and would result in difficulty running
the engine on the pump due to overrich conditions - based on the metering.
This could have been rectified with a bypass type regulator, but I didn't want
to add complexity to the fuel system.  I ended up checking all facet pump types
and settled on the 40107 because: no check or anti
-siphon valves, 7-10psi and 30gph.  I prime for three second at 3psi showing on
the fuel distributor.  The engine starts right up.  Not sure how it works at
keeping the engine running (I suspect insufficient pressure).

I think the reason Diamond went to the Dukes was because there were some early
issues with mechnaical fuel pumps on these engines.  They had a priming solution
with teh Facets but no backup for sustaining flight.  They found a solution
in the Dukes that can perform both.

Reagrds,
Mike












________________________________  Message 19  ____________________________________


Time: 12:42:43 PM PST US
From: chaztuna@adel...
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay
Cc: Ron <rondefly@rtri...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: chaztuna@adel...

Ron
Where did you buy them. Waytek Wire has great prices on Genuine Bosch "ice cube"
relays (and the mounting sockets for them). See

http://order.waytekwire.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L0A298B332B9408002F3F051+M37+ENG

Charlie Kuss

---- Ron <rondefly@rtri...> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
>
> Thanks all for the replies, I will try that today. I did buy 6 of the
> relays.
>
> Ron T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of John D.
> Heath
> Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:19 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matr...
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath"
> <altoq@cebr...>
>
> Ron,
>
> No, 85 and 86 are the contacts that actuate the relay, 30, 87, and 87a are
> all the switch.  87a is normaly closed to 30. When voltage (12VDC) is
> applied accross 85 and 86, 87a and 30 open and 87 closes to 30.   Don,t try
> to say that too fast. :~p  For what you want to do you need two relays.
>
> John D.
>
> ---- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matr...>
> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:16 PM
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>  
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>  
>  
>
>
>













________________________________  Message 20  ____________________________________


Time: 12:52:19 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 06:05 PM 2/11/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
>
>I have looked at the schematics on the search for these but could not
>understand which pin on the relay is which, also tried to find it on the web
>to no avail.  There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a. I want to use
>this type of relay to control my flaps, reflexor, ailerons, they all will
>have a motor that reverses if you change the pos and neg terminals. Sorry
>for being so electronically dump.
>
>http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html


    See drawings in the package at:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Flaps/Flaps.pdf

    Sheet 3 or 4 is probably what you want.

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 21  ____________________________________


Time: 01:28:58 PM PST US
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloy...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloy...>

Lee Logan wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lee Logan <leeloganster@gmai...>
>
> I carry my cell phone with me (Blackberry) on all flights.  Assuming you're
> not incapacitated, seems to me that is a pretty good backup given it has
> voice, text, email, and internet capability all in one.  Do you suppose my
> US coverage would be typically sufficient for this to be a reasonable
> addition to the rescue arsenal or is national coverage inadequate?  

All of our cellular telephone technology (and in this I include PCS, 3G,
and EvDO) is based on relatively short-range radio technology. There has
to be a "cell tower" within about three miles to ensure service. If you
land where there is a cell tower within three miles you are already
where people are. If you land somewhere where you really need service
because there is no one around, you won't have cellular service.

No, you can't count on cellular service as a back-up. A hand-held
satellite phone is another story.

--
Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery












________________________________  Message 22  ____________________________________


Time: 01:41:41 PM PST US
From: BobsV35B@aol....
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Satellite versus Cell Phone, Was: AeroElectric-List
Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol....



Good Afternoon Brian,


That handheld satellite phone sounds interesting.  Would you be able  to
expand on the availability and the costs involved in such a unit?

Do Not Archive

Happy  Skies,

Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman  N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630  985-8503

In a message dated 2/12/2006 3:30:45 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
brian-yak@lloy... writes:

All of  our cellular telephone technology (and in this I include PCS, 3G,
and EvDO)  is based on relatively short-range radio technology. There has
to be a  "cell tower" within about three miles to ensure service. If you
land where  there is a cell tower within three miles you are already
where people are.  If you land somewhere where you really need service
because there is no one  around, you won't have cellular service.

No, you can't count on  cellular service as a back-up. A hand-held
satellite phone is another  story.

--
Brian Lloyd            
















________________________________  Message 23  ____________________________________


Time: 02:32:41 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimp or Solder ?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 04:47 PM 2/11/2006 -0900, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Totten <john@tott...>
>
>
>Can anyone tell me the standard for aircraft wiring - Crimp
>or Solder?



See:

http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Crimp_vs_Solder_and_other_nagging_questions.pdf

for an updated article on this and other issues.

Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 24  ____________________________________


Time: 03:03:55 PM PST US
From: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bden...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200-Help

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" <bdenton@bden...>

Bob...

I'm not 1,000% sure of this but it seems like I read somewhere that the
actual current for the lighting comes from the +14 power lead, and the
voltage fed to the "dimmer" pin is just a small control voltage, with very
little current draw.

Again, not 1,000% sure on this...



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200-Help


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox....>

At 09:47 AM 2/12/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>
>
>Bob, very nice diagrams, much nicer than mine. Two comments.....
>
>   "I'd  intended to show how to "dummy load" the speaker
>output with an inset on page 2."
>
>Regarding  comment about speaker dummy load -  I called ICOM and
>they told me emphatically that it was not necessary to connect
>anything to the speaker load, so your diagram is correct. Other than
>that I think we had similar ideas.

        Very good. I've deleted that feature from Note 3.

>
>The second item is the internal back light. You show it connect to the
>nav lights as ON and OFF deal. It does seem like this from the
>text, like it is a ON/half/OFF deal from the text. Again a call to ICOM
>says back lighting is affected by voltage. In other words light intensity
>is variable and proportional when connected to a variable voltage.

      Hmmmm . . . it would be nice then if they'd included the
      the current draw of this lead for allowing one to size
      their dimmer requirements. If you or anyone else can
      provide a full-bright dimmer lead load value, I'd
      be pleased to add it to the drawings.

>
>
>   ICOM errata:
>The previous post that ICOM shows the incorrect optional
>switches for the Yoke mounted channel and frequency exchange
>switches, I believe they have corrected it. They show spring
>loaded DTSP toggle, normally in center open position and
>momentary to ground pin L or 12. The optional switch choice is
>two single momentary SPST switches to ground.

      Yeah, the ICOM data I found seemed to have the wiring
      right. I just showed the spring-loaded-center-off version.

      I'll hold off posting Rev -B- with hopes that someone can
      get a dimmer load current value.

      Bob . . .




























________________________________  Message 25  ____________________________________


Time: 03:10:33 PM PST US
From: Ken <klehman@albe...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: A200-Help

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albe...>

That would be 300 mA at 13.8 volts.
I ended up with a 3 position toggle switch and a couple of resistors for
dim-off-bright on mine.
Ken

Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
snip

>      I'll hold off posting Rev -B- with hopes that someone can
>      get a dimmer load current value.
>
>      Bob . . .
>  
>














________________________________  Message 26  ____________________________________


Time: 04:05:45 PM PST US
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>

Thanks Bob and all the rest, If I don't get it right after all the help you
guys gave me I better quit.

Ron Triano
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bosch Ice cube relay

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox....>

At 06:05 PM 2/11/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
>
>I have looked at the schematics on the search for these but could not
>understand which pin on the relay is which, also tried to find it on the
web
>to no avail.  There are 5 pins on it. #s 30, 85,86,87,87a. I want to use
>this type of relay to control my flaps, reflexor, ailerons, they all will
>have a motor that reverses if you change the pos and neg terminals. Sorry
>for being so electronically dump.
>
>http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html


    See drawings in the package at:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Flaps/Flaps.pdf

    Sheet 3 or 4 is probably what you want.

    Bob . . .





























________________________________  Message 27  ____________________________________


Time: 05:46:49 PM PST US
From: "Steven Anderson" <s_s_and@hotm...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 3.5 MM stereo plug

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steven Anderson" <s_s_and@hotm...>




I am wiring in a Garmin 396 and Roady 2 to my Garmin audio panel. I have a
switch STTP (single throw, triple pole). Anyway on my 3.5 mm stereo plug, I
assume the nearest to the tip is left channel, the next area of the plug is
right channel, the nearest area to the root of the plug is ground. Is there
any info on wiring up a 3.5 mm stereo plug? Thanks.














________________________________  Message 28  ____________________________________


Time: 08:19:09 PM PST US
From: RV4WGH@aol....
Subject: AeroElectric-List: TURBOCAD

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: RV4WGH@aol....

COMPUSA has TurboCad Designer on sale for $9.99 after rebate in this coming  
week's ad.

Wally Hunt
Rockford, IL













________________________________  Message 29  ____________________________________


Time: 08:46:51 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: antennas

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 10:02 PM 2/11/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster"
><jmfpublic@comc...>
>
>The problem of the ELT anntenna in a wood and fabric plane, or a composite
>one, is discussed in Jim Weir's RST anntenna book.  He suggests two
>dipoles, driven by the same coax, and that is what I plan to do.  The
>ground plane is best suited for an aluminum plane.  The configuration
>looks like the letter X with one pair of legs about 1/3 of the other.  I
>don't recall the exact dimenions, something on the order of 7 inches and
>21 inches.  Jim Weir suggests copper tape, but I prefer 0.032 or 0.016
>thick brass as being much easier to handle and solder.  This is available
>in the hardware store in widths of 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 1 inch.  Best to
>tune this with an antenna analyser, of course.
>
>Jim Foerster, J400, wiring

   That would work too. Thanks for tossing that into the pile!

   Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 30  ____________________________________


Time: 08:46:51 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>   thermocouple probe
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: High temperature epoxy for ungrounded   thermocouple
probe

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
thermocouple probe

At 04:48 PM 2/11/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Foerster"
><jmfpublic@comc...>
>
>Listers:
>
>I have a Jabiru 3300 6 cylinder engine that uses spark plugs with a thread
>diameter of 0.645 inches.  I wish to use ring terminals of 3/8 inch
>diameter drilled out to 15/32=3D0.4688 inches.  (Using a Unibit will allow
>a clean cut.)  This will center the probe more accurately than some
>commercial probes, and it allows me to make my  thermocouples using type J
>wire that I bought from Omega.  I don't want any splices, and will custom
>fit each wire, with an appropriate service loop.
>
>My question is this.  I wish to insulate the 1/4 inch or less soldered end
>of the thermocouple.  Should I use a bit of tefzel insulation, or plumbing
>Teflon tape?  Is there a thin ceramic that is used that I never heard
>of?  The main question is what sort of potting compound to use.  I haven't
>researched high temperature epoxy yet, and would appreciate any
>suggestions.  I am using a thermocouple amplifier, and a grounded
>thermocouple will not work well at all.


   Last time I needed to instrument an engine, I used the AD594
   style chips and grounded thermocouples. I used a separate
   wire to crankcase to take the -VS, +Vs midpoint ground to the
   crankcase.  Common mode on the chips is more than capable
   of working this way as long as you strap the signal ground
   to the engine.

   When you use grounded thermocouples, there are no concerns about
   any common-mode noises (or differential for that matter,
   t/c's are VERY low impedance sources) . . . so concerns
   about proximity to other wires including spark plug wires
   is nil. The hard part is arranging for the crankcase ground
   reference. For a permanently installed instrumentation
   system, you might have to figure out a way to "float" the
   T/C signal conditioners  . . . or simply use crankcase for
   ALL instrument system grounds.

   If you must insulate the T/C, I think I'd dip them in a
   high-temp epoxy like JB Weld. Put a couple of thin coats
   on each T/C before using JB weld to cement it into the
   barrel of the terminal. See:

   http://jbweld.net/products/jbweld.php

   This is pretty amazing stuff . . . in spite of it's
   metal bearing properties, it's still and insulator
   and rated for up to 500F.

   Now, if you float the T/C's at the engine, I recommend
   you tie a pair of 100 ohm resistors from each leg of
   the amplifier chip to signal ground. This gives you a very low
   common mode impedance to signal ground and has no effect on
   accuracy of measurements over the short distances encountered
   in small aircraft.


   Bob . . .

      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
      < with experiment.                                      >
      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >













________________________________  Message 31  ____________________________________


Time: 08:48:14 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 02:39 PM 2/12/2006 +1100, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell"
><wrmaxwell@bigp...>
>
>I was an Icom dealer at the time I got my service Manual but I suggest that
>you contact Icom US and ask for a copy.  I suspect they will know who you
>are and of your influence in our movement.  If not, they would be well
>advised to find out!
>
>I'll take a look at your drawing after I clear this email backlog.

    Take a peek at the dimming input. Can you confirm that it
    simply drive panel lamps? Also, does it call out normal
    input current to this pin?

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 32  ____________________________________


Time: 10:33:56 PM PST US
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@veri...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Panel lighting questions

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@veri...>

Trying to resolve some nagging instrument lighting control issues here:

1) MAC (?Ray Allen?) trim servo position INDICATOR(LED bar graph type).  The
MAC drawings show a white wire (used for dimming control) connected to the
INPUT side of the aircraft's dimmer pot (the side of the pot connected to
+12 volts).  Is this diagram correct and do I have to connect this wire to
the input side of the dimmer control?   Or can I connect it to the OUTPUT
side of a B&C solid state dimmer?  The connection drawing also shows
separate power and ground connections to the indicator so I'm not sure if
the dimming action needs a variable resistance to ground or a variable input
voltage!?  Also...anyone know how much current these draw at full intensity?

2)Mid Content Instruments MD200-306 VOR/ILS indicator internal light
dimming.  Thanks for giving me the scoop on the connections here.  NOW.....I
need to know how much current the internal lighting needs at maximum
brightness.  Anybody know the answer to this one? Can't seem to locate an
answer in the manual I have.  I need to know this so I can determine the
current capacity of the dimming control circuit.

3) Electronic International FL-2CA fuel gauge (capacitive fuel sensing with
display of 2 tanks at once) has both LEDs (which form an analog bar graph to
show fuel levels in both tanks simultaneously) and an LCD digital readout
(which can be switched between each tank to give a digital indication of
fuel remaining).  The instructions show a connection to the dimming control
that allows varying the intensity of the LED bar graph lights.  The LCD
backlight shows only a +12 volt connection with no dimming capability.  For
those of you that have one of these gauges, could a dimmer be connected to
the LCD backlight 12 volt input to provide a dimming of the LCD backlight?
Is dimming the LCD backlight worth-wile or even needed at all?  Or..have you
just connect the +12 volts and lived with the LCD backlight being on all the
time?  Also for the LED bar graphs that are dimmable...does anyone know if
that takes a variable voltage input (ala B&C dimmer controller)or do I need
a variable resistance to ground?

4)For dimming control on the EZ Pilot and AFS AOA indicators, a momentary
push button switch is used that temporarily grounds one pin on the
connector. Is there a way to control these two instruments with an
potentiometer style instrument panel dimmer control or do we have to use the
buttons?  Is such precise dimming control of these instruments worth-wile or
even needed at all?  

5)Non related to panel lights but related to Lightspeed Plasma II+
electronic ignition.  I got this one because it uses the aircraft style key
switch to turn it on and off. I didn't find any key switch depicted or
specified in the manual.  I'm using the STD aircraft A510 key switch that
grounds the P leads to shutoff the mags (I have one mag on the left side).
Is this the correct switch or do I need a car style that makes a connection
to enable the electronic ignition?  I would also like to install an
annunciator light that will turn on when I have the ignition turned on at
the key switch and turn off when the key is off...anyone done this or know
how to accomplish it? Thanks much.

Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Autocad-21 drawings so far
















________________________________  Message 33  ____________________________________


Time: 10:51:31 PM PST US
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloy...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Satellite versus Cell Phone, Was: AeroElectric-List
Digest: 16 Msgs - 02/10/06

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloy...>



BobsV35B@aol.... wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol....
>
>  
>  
> Good Afternoon Brian,
>  
>
> That handheld satellite phone sounds interesting.  Would you be able  to
> expand on the availability and the costs involved in such a unit?

Well, you can do a search with Google to find sources. I just entered
"satellite phone" as my search string and came up with the information
you are seeking.

The two system with which I am familiar are Iridium and Globalstar. The
seem quite pricey when compared to cellular/PCS service here in the US
but the key is that they work just about anywhere in the world (Iridium)
with no roaming charges. OTOH they cost like paying roaming charges for
normal service. Expect to pay about $1(US) per minute for air time.


--
Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

















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