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a : aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com 16 February 2006 • 3:55PM -0500

AeroElectric-List Digest: 35 Msgs - 02/15/06
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                     Total Messages Posted Wed 02/15/06: 35
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------

     1. 04:42 AM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     2. 04:42 AM - OV protection-JD Alternator/VR  (The Minearts)
     3. 04:53 AM - Re: instrument wiring  (LarryRobertHelming)
     4. 05:12 AM - Re: Odyssey % of charge  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 05:15 AM - Re: OV protection-JD Alternator/VR  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 05:18 AM - Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 05:22 AM - Re: Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at once?  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 05:24 AM - Re: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main?  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 05:28 AM - Is a Relay Needed?  (Alexander, Don)
    10. 05:28 AM - Re: Z31-B Ground power disconnect?  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 07:00 AM - Re: instrument wiring  (Dan Beadle)
    12. 10:44 AM - Re: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main?  (Dj Merrill)
    13. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Carlos Trigo)
    14. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Bill Maxwell)
    15. 12:28 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Harley)
    16. 12:28 PM - Re: dimmer ckt from Van's  (Bob C.)
    17. 12:28 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (George Neal E Capt HQ AU/XPRR)
    18. 12:32 PM - Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator (to Matt)  ()
    19. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Glaeser, Dennis A)
    20. 12:50 PM - Small Voltmeter  ()
    21. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! Removal Tool  (Carlos Trigo)
    22. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (James Redmon)
    23. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Bill Maxwell)
    24. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Bill Maxwell)
    25. 02:51 PM - Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    26. 06:01 PM - Re: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main?  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    27. 06:31 PM - Piper Style Ground Power  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    28. 06:41 PM - Re: Small Voltmeter  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    29. 06:41 PM - Re: Small Voltmeter  (William Slaughter)
    30. 06:42 PM - Re: Is a Relay Needed?  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    31. 06:44 PM - Re: instrument wiring  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    32. 06:45 PM - Link for Small Volt meter  (Garland Edwards)
    33. 07:03 PM - Re: Link for Small Volt meter  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    34. 07:12 PM - Re: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main?  (Dj Merrill)
    35. 09:38 PM - Small voltmeter.....  (Jim Baker)



________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 04:42:01 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 08:34 PM 2/13/2006 +1100, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell"
><wrmaxwell@bigp...>
>
>That peek required a magnifying glass Bob, plus a bright light and a glass
>of scotch.
>
>The dimming circuit doesn't rate a mention in the specifications at all,
>beyond a "+14v (input)"  description in section 5-2 when describing the
>Molex connector pins.
>
>According to the schematic, the input flows through an LC filter, the coil
>value unspecified but described as EXC-ELDR25C and is a component used in
>several other parts of the schematic; the capacitor is 0.0047 uF. The input
>is picked off at the L and C junction. Test voltages at that point are
>called out as 13.5V both in Tx and Rx. It then leads to 2 "lamps" on the
>Main Unit pcb, drawn as incandescent bulbs but described in the parts list
>as LEDs, via an 8.2 ohm resistor.  Those 2 are wired in parallel between the
>tail of that resistor and ground.  They backlight the front panel push
>switches. Test voltages at the junction of the tail of the 8.2 ohm res and
>the paralleled leds is 12.5V, both in Rx and Tx.
>
>A branch before the 8.2 ohm resistor  also feeds a further 6 "lamps",  again
>drawn as incandescent lamps but again described in the parts list as LEDs,
>via an 18 ohm resistor.  These 6 backlight the LCD display panel, wired 3 in
>series, the 2 series networks then wired in parallel between the tail of the
>18 ohm Res. and ground.  These obviously backlight the LCD display on the
>Front Unit. Test voltages at the junction of the led networks and the 18ohm
>are called out as 10.0V on both transmit and receive..
>
>Nothing furter mentioned anywhere but I hope this little helps.  It seems to
>me to be a fairly straightforward linear circuit, lending itself readily to
>dimming by varying the input voltage below the 13.8 volt rail?

    Agreed. Given the compactness of the package and what we
    know about incandescent lamps, it's logical and likely that
    the resistors serve as many as two purposes. (1) to balance
    levels between the two lighting functions and (2) boost
    life of the lamps. They're probably difficult to replace
    and the prudent designer would do well to strive for very
    long life.  I'll modify my wiring diagram accordingly. Thanks for
    the data dump!

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 04:42:01 AM PST US
From: "The Minearts" <smineart@maha...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: OV protection-JD Alternator/VR

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "The Minearts" <smineart@maha...>

Has anyone used Bob's OV protection hardware with the John Deere 18amp alt and
voltage regulator, AM101406, like used on the Wynne Corvair conversion?  Would
it be similar to the setup on Z-16, the Rotax system with PM alternator?
Steve Mineart, CH601












________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 04:53:24 AM PST US
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sige...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: instrument wiring

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sige...>

----- Original Message -----
Subject: AeroElectric-List: instrument wiring


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris & Kellie Hand"
> <ckhand@eart...>
>
>
> Am I that far out on my load estimates?  Anybody think 18 AWG is really
> necessary for powering these instruments?  I'm wiring these independently,
> not daisy chaining them as shown in the Van's drawings.
>
> Thanks for any feedback,
> Chris Hand
(((((((((()))))))))))))
Chris, you could be right on if you are not daisy chaining.  You should call
or email support @ Vans.  do not archive
Indiana Larry, RV7 SunSeeker 80+ hours flying

"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
> RV-6A, finishing stages














________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 05:12:02 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Odyssey % of charge

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 08:22 AM 2/14/2006 +0000, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suff...>
>
>If the charging system is not working does anyone have an approximate % of
>remaining capacity versus voltage for a Odyssey PC680 or similar?
>
>What is a safe lower voltage limit one can discharge a PC680 to and not
>cause permanent battery damage?

    I guessing . . . but when most folks ask this question,
    the goal is to deduce some sense of how long the battery
    will run certain pieces of equipment given it's present
    state of charge.

    Keep in mind that voltage versus capacity deductions are
    only valid for a battery that is not loaded. Further the
    numbers are only approximate and most valid after the
    battery has been sitting static (neither loaded nor
    charged) for hours.

    Finally, any deductions you might make for endurance must
    be guided by knowing the battery's present CAPACITY as
    well. Knowing the voltage alone is like driving an
    unfamiliar vehicle with a gas gage calibrated as
    E - quarter - half - three quarters - Full. You have
    some sense of percentage of fuel remaining but without
    knowing the capacity of the tank, there's no way to
    deduce range and present rate of consumption.

    Know that ALL lead-acid technologies are 95% used up
    at 11 volts for a 12-volt battery. See:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Capacity_vs_Voltage.gif

    This is a curve for a big biz jet battery where we see
    that for "light" loads (1 to 2x of capacity), the discharge
    voltage has a sharp "knee" that increases the negative
    going slope as it crosses 11v/22v line.

    This particular battery is capacity rated at CC levels
    of discharge i.e., it's a 37 a.h. battery that will give
    100% of rated capacity at 74 amps of discharge (typical
    for rating bizjet batteries that have a 30 minute emergency
    requirement). If one were to discharge this battery like
    most of the rest of the industry does (20 hour rate) then
    it would probably exhibit a capacity on the order of
    50 ampere-hours.

    Check out this curve from the datasheet on a Panasonic
    33 a.h. battery:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/LA1233_Panasonic.gif


    Again, note the shape knee in the curve as it dives
    through 11 volts . . . all used up. In this case, the
    battery is not specifically rated for emergency power
    service in airplanes - it couldn't be called a
    33 a.h. device. If we run up the 30-minute line to
    11 volts, we find that the battery would have to be
    rated as a 26 a.h. device if intended for that kind
    of service.

    The only way to KNOW how long your battery will perform
    certain duties during alternator out operations is to
    track the battery's capacity. I.e., load it with the
    anticipated endurance loads and see how long it takes
    to get down to 11.0 volts. I'm guessing this is the number
    you were hoping to deduce with the answer to your original
    question. A pure voltage measurement is not a useful
    anticipator of performance when the alternator is off
    line.

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 05:15:14 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OV protection-JD Alternator/VR

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 06:35 AM 2/15/2006 -0600, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "The Minearts" <smineart@maha...>
>
>Has anyone used Bob's OV protection hardware with the John Deere 18amp alt
>and voltage regulator, AM101406, like used on the Wynne Corvair
>conversion?  Would it be similar to the setup on Z-16, the Rotax system
>with PM alternator?
>Steve Mineart, CH601

    All PM alternators (and internally regulated wound field
    alternators) share a common characteristic in that they
    cannot be absolutely controlled from the outside. Hence
    the need for opening the main power lead from the device
    (high current) as opposed to opening the field circuit.

    Incorporation of OV protection for this class of alternator
    is illustrated in Z-16 and is applicable to any instance
    where the builder desires the protection.

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 05:18:12 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 07:47 PM 2/14/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dan Brown <dan@fami...>
>
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>gmcjetpilot@yaho... wrote:
>
> > Congratulation you had an overvoltage. You saw
> > that it limited the voltage to 18 volts max. I
>
>         Since the range of the voltmeter in question only extended to 18
> volts,
>it doesn't seem that we can confidently say what the voltage was, only
>that it was at least 18 volts (or at least whatever voltage causes the
>instrument to register 18 volts).  The accuracy of the gauge could be
>determined easily enough by cross-checking using a DVM of known
>accuracy, so long as it was connected to the same place that the panel
>meter uses--but that's really a side issue.  As the scenario was
>described, the voltmeter was pegged at 18 volts--you can't say from that
>that the resulting voltage was 18 max; it's more like 18 min.

     Excellent observation.

     Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 05:22:40 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>   once?
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at   once?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
once?

At 04:01 PM 2/14/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott" <scott@rand...>
>
>Would it be "bad" if the main alternator was still running and the standby
>alternator were engaged?  My assumption is that which ever alternator's
>regulator had the higher set point would max itself out (assuming a high
>enough load) and the other alternator would pick up the rest (or idle) with
>no ill effect on the system overall.  Is this true, or are there issues I'm
>missing like dynamic circuit response causing some kind of feedback or the
>smaller SD8 burning itself up?  A related question:  If the load is greater
>than the SD-8 can support is there any consequence other than the battery
>supplying the extra required current?  For instance if I flip on the battery
>master and run landing lights or pitot heat or something.

   No, there is no risk to any system components by having both
   alternators on at the same time. The alternator having the higher
   regulation setpoint will become fully loaded before the other
   alternator . . . which is generally not a risk to the alternator
   itself. But in case of the SD-8 where the high stress component
   is the regulator, there is perhaps some risk to this device if not
   well heat-sinked.

   Generally speaking, the well designed alternator cannot be damaged
   by overloading. It simply goes into current limited operation and
   the output voltage sags. Generators from days of yore would willingly
   destroy themselves in an overload condition hence the need for BOTH
   current and voltage limiting in the generator's regulator. Alternators
   have never needed such protection.

   Bob . . .


      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
      < with experiment.                                      >
      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >













________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 05:24:44 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>   Main?
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of   Main?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Main?

At 04:02 PM 2/14/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott" <scott@rand...>
>
>The Z13-8 diagram shows the low voltage warning light connected to the main
>bus.  It seems to me like connecting it to the E-bus would be slightly more
>useful.  In that configuration, it should illuminate if the main alt drops
>offline UNTIL the standby alt is engaged.  At that point it stop indicating
>unless/until the load exceeded the output capabiliy of the SD-8 standby
>alternator.  In that way it would essentially act as a "battery discharge"
>warning (with the inference that if the voltage is below alternator
>operating range, then the battery is discharging -- if only through the low
>voltage warning circuit!)  BTW, what is the current draw of the Low Voltage
>Warning circuit?  I presume it's very small and driven mostly by the
>light/LED used.
>
>Does anyone see a problem with this configuration?  Does it miss a design
>consideration that motivated it's original placement?

   Yes. The normal e-bus voltage is .6 to .8 volts below the main
   bus due to isolation diode drops in normal operation. The REAL
   voltage of interest is at the main bus and it's purpose is to
   annunciate alternator failure.

   Further, when you react to the alternator failure by turning
   the main bus OFF, you want the LV warning to go dark too. Without
   an alternator, the LV light flashes all the time . . . you don't
   want this thing flashing at you during battery-only, e-bus ops.

   Bob . . .


      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
      < with experiment.                                      >
      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >













________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 05:28:12 AM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Is a Relay Needed?
From: "Alexander, Don" <Don.Alexander@aste...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alexander, Don" <Don.Alexander@aste...>

I am getting ready to wire up my Ray Allen stick control buttons.  One
of the functions that I am using will be for the flaps.  (RV-8)  I have
tested the flap motor without an "air" load on the flaps and get a bit
over two amps when running.  Ray Allen indicates that their switches are
rated for five amps.  Do I need to include a relay in my circuit with
this sort of margin?
Regards,
Don Alexander















________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 05:28:12 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z31-B Ground power disconnect?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 03:54 PM 2/14/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott" <scott@rand...>
>
>Reviewing the diagram of the "piper" style ground power plug in Z-31B it
>appears that once external power is applied, the contactor would stay
>energized forever (at least until the battery was killed) since the
>engergizing current would flow backward through the contactor and through
>the solenoid coil.  Is there a key point I'm missing or is an interrupt
>switch of some kind called for?

    Yup, it's called the ground power control switch illustrated
    in this case as a switch-breaker in the lower left quadrant
    of the drawing. If you want to use a miniature push-pull breaker,
    then an additional switch is called for . . . or you could use
    the breaker itself as the controlling device. It's a VERY low
    usage item and I'd have no heartburn about using the breaker
    as a switch in this case.

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 07:00:42 AM PST US
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: instrument wiring
From: "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle@hq.i...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" <Dan.Beadle@hq.I...>

The issue of using smaller wire comes down to the circuit breaker.

If you use 22 wire, you need a smaller CB.  The general idea is the CB
should pop before the wire heats enough to cause a fire.

So, if you have a star arrangement where several gages share one CB, the
normal current in any one wire is low - say the .4A you call out.  But
if you put 6 of these together, you need a 3.2 A break.  So you use a
5A, next bigger.  But, then, you need wire that will carry 5A without
overheating long enough to pop the breaker.  

As long as the wire doesn't overheat if it has to pop the breaker, you
would be OK.  So make sure that each wire from a breaker, including
ground return lines, are sized to match the breaker and the load.

Dan

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of
LarryRobertHelming
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:52 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: instrument wiring

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
<lhelming@sige...>

----- Original Message -----
Subject: AeroElectric-List: instrument wiring


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris & Kellie Hand"
> <ckhand@eart...>
>
>
> Am I that far out on my load estimates?  Anybody think 18 AWG is
really
> necessary for powering these instruments?  I'm wiring these
independently,
> not daisy chaining them as shown in the Van's drawings.
>
> Thanks for any feedback,
> Chris Hand
(((((((((()))))))))))))
Chris, you could be right on if you are not daisy chaining.  You should
call
or email support @ Vans.  do not archive
Indiana Larry, RV7 SunSeeker 80+ hours flying

"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility,
and
at your own risk."
> RV-6A, finishing stages




























________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 10:44:57 AM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main?
From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej...>

Scott wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott" <scott@rand...>
>
>The Z13-8 diagram shows the low voltage warning light connected to the main
>bus.  It seems to me like connecting it to the E-bus would be slightly more
>useful.  In that configuration, it should illuminate if the main alt drops
>offline UNTIL the standby alt is engaged.  At that point it stop indicating
>unless/until the load exceeded the output capabiliy of the SD-8 standby
>alternator.  In that way it would essentially act as a "battery discharge"
>warning (with the inference that if the voltage is below alternator
>operating range, then the battery is discharging -- if only through the low
>voltage warning circuit!)  BTW, what is the current draw of the Low Voltage
>Warning circuit?  I presume it's very small and driven mostly by the
>light/LED used.
>
>Does anyone see a problem with this configuration?  Does it miss a design
>consideration that motivated it's original placement?
>
>  
>

    How would you know if the main buss went offline?
If you happened to be looking out the window in the brief
time that it might light until the standby alt kicked in
automatically, you might never see the warning.

    I suppose you could hook the low voltage warning "sensor" to a switch,
initially monitoring the main buss, and then you manually
switch it to the E-buss and thus "acknowledge" the warning.

-Dj

--
Dj Merrill
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118

"Many things that are unexplainable happen during the construction of an
airplane."  --Dave Prizio, 30 Aug 2005

"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"












________________________________  Message 13  ____________________________________


Time: 11:50:22 AM PST US
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail...>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!



>>Molex connector pins.
>>
>>

Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
Molex connector pin removal tool.
Where can it be obtained?

Carlos














________________________________  Message 14  ____________________________________


Time: 12:05:18 PM PST US
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>

I dont know Carlos and I have never seen one.  I quietly borrow some sewing
needles from my wife's collection, find one that can fit down the receptacle
and use it to push the locking ear flush with the rest of the pin and then
pull the pin out.  I imagine the proper tool does exactly that but in a more
sophisticated fashion?  One would be a handy addition to the tool kit if we
can locate a ready source.

Bill


----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail...>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo"
> <trigo@mail...>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matr...>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:36 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>
>
>>>Molex connector pins.
>>>
>>>
>
> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
> Molex connector pin removal tool.
> Where can it be obtained?
>
> Carlos
>
>
>













________________________________  Message 15  ____________________________________


Time: 12:28:00 PM PST US
From: Harley <harley@Agel...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agel...>

Years ago (in my other life<G>), I made a couple of these molex pin
removal tools at work to fit the various sized pins/receptacles we
used.  It was simply a 1/4" diameter brass rod about two inches long,
with a smaller rod stuck through it (or soldered on) at one end to make
a tee type handle.

For the pin end, I mounted it in a lathe (before I put the tee handle on
it <G>) and bored it out with the proper sized drill to fit the pin
loosely.  While still on the lathe, I turned down the rod on the outside
so it would fit inside the receptacle.

If you figure the depth of the pin's hole correctly, and the length of
the turned down portion of the rod that will fit inside the receptacle,
then you can use the tool to push the pin completely free of the
receptacle without ever having to pull on the wire.

If you don't have a lathe, take a 1/4"  brass rod to a shop or friend
with one, show them a pin and a receptacle and let them at it.  It's
pretty simple, and they do last a long time!  Still have mine around
here somewhere...12 years after retiring!

Harley Dixon



Bill Maxwell wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>
>
>I dont know Carlos and I have never seen one.  I quietly borrow some sewing
>needles from my wife's collection, find one that can fit down the receptacle
>and use it to push the locking ear flush with the rest of the pin and then
>pull the pin out.  I imagine the proper tool does exactly that but in a more
>sophisticated fashion?  One would be a handy addition to the tool kit if we
>can locate a ready source.
>
>Bill
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail...>
>To: <aeroelectric-list@matr...>
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:44 AM
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>
>
>  
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo"
>><trigo@mail...>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
>>To: <aeroelectric-list@matr...>
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:36 PM
>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>Molex connector pins.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
>>Molex connector pin removal tool.
>>Where can it be obtained?
>>
>>Carlos
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>













________________________________  Message 16  ____________________________________


Time: 12:28:00 PM PST US
From: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmai...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: dimmer ckt from Van's

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmai...>

I've got one about the same age but haven't hooked it up yet.

I think Van's is pretty good about replacing defective items?

Good Luck,
Bob


On 2/15/06, Chris & Kellie Hand <ckhand@eart...> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand@eart...>
>
> I hooked up my instrument lights to the Van's dimmer ckt I installed and powered
things up.  Power distribution is working and I have battery voltage at the
+12V terminal screw on the dimmer board.  Also show good ground on the dimmer
board's ground terminal screw.  Potentiometer is working properly and connected
to the right terminals on the board.
> Output I'm getting at the Load terminal on the dimmer board varies from 0 to
about 6 mV rather than the expected 2.5 V up to battery voltage.
>
> The dimmer ckt is new out of the box, but I bought it well over a year ago and
didn't test it prior to now.  Has anybody experienced similar issues with the
Van's board, and are there any suggestions on how to fix it without having to
buy a new one?
> If I give up on the dimmer ckt from Van's, I need to find something else with
a poteniometer/dimmer knob the same size or larger since I already have the current
one installed in the panel.
>
> Thanks for any help or advice you can give me.
> Chris Hand
> RV-6A, finishing stages
>
>













________________________________  Message 17  ____________________________________


Time: 12:28:00 PM PST US
From: George Neal E Capt HQ AU/XPRR <Neal.George@maxw...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt HQ AU/XPRR <Neal.George@MAXW...>

Carlos -

Stein sells them - http://www.steinair.com/connectors.htm
Last item on the page.
Do Not Archive

Neal


Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
Molex connector pin removal tool.
Where can it be obtained?

Carlos




















________________________________  Message 18  ____________________________________


Time: 12:32:33 PM PST US
From: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator (to Matt)

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yaho...>

>Subject: Re: Over-voltage event w/ IR alternator
>From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro...>
  
  
  
   Hi Matt: Thanks for the great post let me see
   if I can explain or at least share my
   ignorance.
  
  
>Hello George, A couple of questions:
>
>
>What causes the failed IR overvoltage event to max-
>out at 17V (or 18V)? Is it loads and battery?  Or
>is the field current limited somehow.  It seems
>that we discussed that a short between Vb and the
>field (through the main transistor, or otherwise)
>would cause an OV event similar to what was
>described - open loop output, controlled by RPM,
>and load  the battery being the primary load.  Mr
>Lee didn't mention whether he experimented with
>eliminating loads, and revving the engine to a
>higher RPM (I wouldn't have tried that on my daily
>driver).  But it seems that you are suggesting that
>even had he done that, 17V would have been the peak
>voltage seen on the bus.  Am I reading you right?
  
  
   To be honest I dont know what caused the OV.
   If Mr. Lee would send the VR to me I will have
   it evaluated and dissected. A large
   manufacture of aftermarket VR of all brands
   and types says they would check any VR of any
   make or brand for me. They have a lab with x-
   ray, test equipment and expertise to do
   failure analysis.
  
   Are you saying that this is indicative of a
   dead short of the field driver transistor? Not
   to be combative I would say prove it. Of the
   few OV conditions I have seen with NDs, they
   seem every time to peeks at 16 or 17 volts
   (talking about ND alternators only). From a
   Toyota repair manual it does seem when there
   is a fault the alternator can go into a 16v
   mode, albeit not a very stable or regulated,
   it never allows the voltage to RUN-A-WAY. Also
   if this is the worst that can happen I say so
   what. It aint no biggie.
  
   Mr. Lee did vary load and RPM. He did a great
   job of testing RPM, Load and noticed the idiot
   light went out and on with voltage. If there
   was a dead short, the dreaded RUN-A-WAY, I
   think it would pump out way more voltage than
   18v even with load applied or not.
  
   Yes I am suggesting 17 (18) volt is the peak
   with THIS KIND of (typ) failure. I am sure it is
   possible to have the single fault runaway with
   a ND. I believe Bob N and from what little I
   know, it is possible. However from the Mr.
   Lees F150 OV I dont see this, nor did Mr. L.  
  
   I do see an alternator that went to an a-stable
   condition where voltage varied from 13v to
   18v. Noting more nothing less? If you tell me
   that is a classic shorted transistor I say SO
   WHAT? Ha ha ha ha. Who is worried about that.
   If that is the worst that can happen, so what.
  
     The urban legend does not match reality, busted!
      I-VR's are cool, not the evil OV machine.
  
  
  >How long can we predict that we can leave a typical
>17Ah AGM battery connected to 17V, and have it act
>as a system filter?  Is there any risk of fire
>associated with long term (admittedly,
>unquantified) operation in such a manner?  Asked
>another way, what's the charge rate on the  battery
>when pumped to 17V?  I suppose your suggestion to
>include a b-lead disconnect of some sort (breaker,
>in your case) addresses this issue.  As long as the
>pilot registers that the bus voltage is
>significantly out of limits.
  
  
   Another great question. I would say that is
   why we have an idiot light on the alternator
   or a HI/Lo volt warning light. With the BIG
   OLD FAT Circuit Breaker for the B-lead on the
   panel, pulling it makes it a moot worry.
  
   However to answer the question I think the
   battery can take an over charge for a
   reasonable about of time, a minute to 10?
  
   Bob reported a case of a RV pilot who had an
   OV and flew for quite a while with out any
   action, despite smelling something burning.
   When he noticed the volt meter was TOO high
   (no value given) he turned the ALT off with
   the ALT switch. The volts returned to normal.
   When he landed the battery case had expanded
   and was clearly bulging out. First no actual
   time was given for the duration of the OV, but
   it could be 10 minutes to 40 minutes. When he
   noticed the volt meter (I think analog) he
   stated it was HI but no value given. I am
     guessing that it was 17 volts. No damage to
   radios was reported, but it is assumed that it
   was a basic VFR plane.
  
   So I think there is a risk, but low. As far as
   the battery it was being abused with high
   volts from say 5-40 minutes(?) and it only
   bulged. The alternator did not catch on fire
   but Bob N. reported damage to internal parts,
   no doubt from pumping out too much juice. As
   long as the alternator is not near anything it
   can catch on fire from heat and is not
   dripping in oil it should not do anything but
   get real hop. However if you turn the juice
   off to the IGN lead of the alternator and pull
   the b-lead CB it should shut down or just burn
   out in short order.
  
  
  
>Without intending to put words into Bob (Nuckolls)'s
>mouth, I believe He has said that he can't recommend
>IR alternators in the context of designing an
>electrical system with certificated-like behavior.  
>Not an all-out condemnation of these alternators as
>a whole.  I believe he has, on several occasions,
>recognized the advantages of these low-cost devices.
  >
>Regards, Matt-
  
   Yes, you could be right. All I know is Bob was
   OK with I-VR, or at least he allowed it in his
   book with a Crow Bar and OV contactor as he
   showed in his Z diagrams. Than Van said, he
   will not warranty alternators they sold if an OV
   device was used and did not recommend it. This
   is after several (of Bobs) crow bars blew up
   alternators. Bobs response was to call Van
   ignorant and state he was taking out all
   reference of I-VR in his book. Also on page 2:
  
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Crowbar_OV_Protection/Crowbar_E.pdf
  
   and, page one, right column, first Par, 2) for
   years......
  
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternator_Failures.pdf
  
   I could be wrong. I got the idea he is anti I-
   VRs. I agree with his claim that they cant be
   certified for aircraft use, is true. However
   automotive fuse blocks cant be certified. In
   fact most experimental kit planes cant be
   certified either. I dont hold the FAA good
   house keeping stamp in such high absolute
   terms. It seems like Bob N. will fall back on,
   it cant be certified, when it suits him, and
   push non standard or automotive technology
   when it does suit him. I was in aircraft
   certification new and modification of large
   transport aircraft. I do know how it works.
   However Bob N. has way more electrical
   knowledge and experience than I do.
  
  
   Take fuses you cant *fiddle with* as Bob
   says or a fuse on B-leads under the cowl.
   These are very alternative approaches and a
   direct copy from automotive wiring
   architecture. I doubt the FAA would approve
   any airplane wired to Aeroelectric, E-VR or I-
   VR. Does that make it Bad. No it makes it
   better. So, can it be certified?, makes no impact
   or impression on me. I know better. It is a
   hollow claim, especially on experimental aircraft.
     The SR71 and SpaceShip1 are not FAA approved.
  
   Cheers George

  


---------------------------------












________________________________  Message 19  ____________________________________


Time: 12:45:05 PM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser@eds....>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser@eds....>

------------------
Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to
a Molex connector pin removal tool. Where can it be obtained?

Carlos
-----------------
Stein has them: www.steinair.com/tools.htm - see the SAT-033.  B&C has
them as well.

Dennis Glaeser













________________________________  Message 20  ____________________________________


Time: 12:50:50 PM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Small Voltmeter
From: <rparigor@SUFF...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suff...>

I need a "SMALL" high quality voltmeter to put in the headrest of our
Europa. Bar or Digital OK but with reasonable accuracy between 11 and 17V.

Anybody know where to get one?

Thx.
Ron Parigoris














________________________________  Message 21  ____________________________________


Time: 01:13:19 PM PST US
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Icom A200-Help! Removal Tool

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail...>

Thanks guys

It happens that I have one of those blue/white removal tools that Stein
sells, but I simply didn't know that they work with these Molex connectors.
I will try it!

Carlos


----- Original Message -----
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser@eds....>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:41 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re: Icom A200-Help!


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A"
> <dennis.glaeser@eds....>
>
> ------------------
> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to
> a Molex connector pin removal tool. Where can it be obtained?
>
> Carlos
> -----------------
> Stein has them: www.steinair.com/tools.htm - see the SAT-033.  B&C has
> them as well.
>
> Dennis Glaeser
>













________________________________  Message 22  ____________________________________


Time: 01:16:58 PM PST US
From: "James Redmon" <james@berk...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berk...>

I think the other responses are referencing the Molex power plug pins, not
the Molex KK type pins that are in the interface between the radio and the
mounting tray.  (at least I think those are the ones - from memory)

For the removal tool, you will likely need to go no further than your wife.

See: http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm

Enjoy,

James Redmon
Berkut #013  N97TX
http://www.berkut13.com


> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
> Molex connector pin removal tool.
> Where can it be obtained?
>
> Carlos













________________________________  Message 23  ____________________________________


Time: 01:34:20 PM PST US
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>

Now why didn't I think of that?  Thanks Harley.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Harley" <harley@Agel...>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agel...>
>
> Years ago (in my other life<G>), I made a couple of these molex pin
> removal tools at work to fit the various sized pins/receptacles we
> used.  It was simply a 1/4" diameter brass rod about two inches long,
> with a smaller rod stuck through it (or soldered on) at one end to make
> a tee type handle.
>
> For the pin end, I mounted it in a lathe (before I put the tee handle on
> it <G>) and bored it out with the proper sized drill to fit the pin
> loosely.  While still on the lathe, I turned down the rod on the outside
> so it would fit inside the receptacle.
>
> If you figure the depth of the pin's hole correctly, and the length of
> the turned down portion of the rod that will fit inside the receptacle,
> then you can use the tool to push the pin completely free of the
> receptacle without ever having to pull on the wire.
>
> If you don't have a lathe, take a 1/4"  brass rod to a shop or friend
> with one, show them a pin and a receptacle and let them at it.  It's
> pretty simple, and they do last a long time!  Still have mine around
> here somewhere...12 years after retiring!
>
> Harley Dixon
>
>
> Bill Maxwell wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell"
>><wrmaxwell@bigp...>
>>
>>I dont know Carlos and I have never seen one.  I quietly borrow some
>>sewing
>>needles from my wife's collection, find one that can fit down the
>>receptacle
>>and use it to push the locking ear flush with the rest of the pin and then
>>pull the pin out.  I imagine the proper tool does exactly that but in a
>>more
>>sophisticated fashion?  One would be a handy addition to the tool kit if
>>we
>>can locate a ready source.
>>
>>Bill
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail...>
>>To: <aeroelectric-list@matr...>
>>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 6:44 AM
>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo"
>>><trigo@mail...>
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
>>>To: <aeroelectric-list@matr...>
>>>Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 12:36 PM
>>>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Molex connector pins.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to
>>>a
>>>Molex connector pin removal tool.
>>>Where can it be obtained?
>>>
>>>Carlos
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>













________________________________  Message 24  ____________________________________


Time: 01:39:15 PM PST US
From: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Maxwell" <wrmaxwell@bigp...>

Better yet and no sharp point to negotiate!

Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Redmon" <james@berk...>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon"
> <james@berk...>
>
> I think the other responses are referencing the Molex power plug pins, not
> the Molex KK type pins that are in the interface between the radio and the
> mounting tray.  (at least I think those are the ones - from memory)
>
> For the removal tool, you will likely need to go no further than your
> wife.
>
> See: http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm
>
> Enjoy,
>
> James Redmon
> Berkut #013  N97TX
> http://www.berkut13.com
>
>
>> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to
>> a
>> Molex connector pin removal tool.
>> Where can it be obtained?
>>
>> Carlos
>
>
>













________________________________  Message 25  ____________________________________


Time: 02:51:56 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help!

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 03:13 PM 2/15/2006 -0600, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "James Redmon" <james@berk...>
>
>I think the other responses are referencing the Molex power plug pins, not
>the Molex KK type pins that are in the interface between the radio and the
>mounting tray.  (at least I think those are the ones - from memory)
>
>For the removal tool, you will likely need to go no further than your wife.
>
>See: http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm


   I've made tools for the KK and similar pins from small screwdrivers
   and a few minutes with a grinder. See:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/extraction_tool.jpg



        Bob . . .


      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
      < with experiment.                                      >
      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >













________________________________  Message 26  ____________________________________


Time: 06:01:42 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>   Main?
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of   Main?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Main?

At 01:40 PM 2/15/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej...>
>
>Scott wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott" <scott@rand...>
> >
> >The Z13-8 diagram shows the low voltage warning light connected to the main
> >bus.  It seems to me like connecting it to the E-bus would be slightly more
> >useful.  In that configuration, it should illuminate if the main alt drops
> >offline UNTIL the standby alt is engaged.  At that point it stop indicating
> >unless/until the load exceeded the output capabiliy of the SD-8 standby
> >alternator.  In that way it would essentially act as a "battery discharge"
> >warning (with the inference that if the voltage is below alternator
> >operating range, then the battery is discharging -- if only through the low
> >voltage warning circuit!)  BTW, what is the current draw of the Low Voltage
> >Warning circuit?  I presume it's very small and driven mostly by the
> >light/LED used.
> >
> >Does anyone see a problem with this configuration?  Does it miss a design
> >consideration that motivated it's original placement?
> >
> >
> >
>
>     How would you know if the main buss went offline?
>If you happened to be looking out the window in the brief
>time that it might light until the standby alt kicked in
>automatically, you might never see the warning.

    How would you not know the main bus was off? That
    takes the whole panel down. What failure would you
    anticipate would produce this effect?


>     I suppose you could hook the low voltage warning "sensor" to a switch,
>initially monitoring the main buss, and then you manually
>switch it to the E-buss and thus "acknowledge" the warning.

    The low voltage warning is not intended to monitor
    a bus, it's intended to provide active and almost immediate
    notification of alternator failure. Total loss of the main
    bus takes a combination of failures and is difficult not
    to notice.

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 27  ____________________________________


Time: 06:31:17 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Piper Style Ground Power

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott" <scott@rand...>
>
>Reviewing the diagram of the "piper" style ground power plug in Z-31B it
>appears that once external power is applied, the contactor would stay
>energized forever (at least until the battery was killed) since the
>engergizing current would flow backward through the contactor and through
>the solenoid coil. Is there a key point I'm missing or is an interrupt
>switch of some kind called for?



     Yup, it's called the ground power control switch illustrated
     in this case as a switch-breaker in the lower left quadrant
     of the drawing. If you want to use a miniature push-pull breaker,
     then an additional switch is called for . . . or you could use
     the breaker itself as the controlling device. It's a VERY low
     usage item and I'd have no heartburn about using the breaker
     as a switch in this case.


      Bob . . .



      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
      < with experiment.                                      >
      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >













________________________________  Message 28  ____________________________________


Time: 06:41:37 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Small Voltmeter

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 08:48 PM 2/15/2006 +0000, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suff...>
>
>I need a "SMALL" high quality voltmeter to put in the headrest of our
>Europa. Bar or Digital OK but with reasonable accuracy between 11 and 17V.
>
>Anybody know where to get one?

    Don't have any digital meters in my bag of tricks. But I
    could supply you with a miniature, expanded scale, analog
    device.

    It would look like it's little brother loadmeter at:

http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/9007-100-1_Loadmeter.jpg

    except the scale would run 10-15 volts. You can get
    dimensions at:

http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9007/AEC9007-700.pdf

    I'm working on a scaling module that mounts right on
    the back of the instrument which is still going through
    birthing pains. However, in the mean time, I could put
    the scaling module into the same package as the product
    shown on page 2 of

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9011/9011-700-1B.pdf

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 29  ____________________________________


Time: 06:41:37 PM PST US
From: "William Slaughter" <willslau@alum...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Small Voltmeter

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Slaughter" <willslau@alum...>

UMA makes a 1-1/4" round voltmeter. I have no experience with it, but it
looks nice. www.umainstruments.com

William Slaughter

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of
rparigor@SUFF...
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:48 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Small Voltmeter


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suff...>

I need a "SMALL" high quality voltmeter to put in the headrest of our
Europa. Bar or Digital OK but with reasonable accuracy between 11 and
17V.

Anybody know where to get one?

Thx.
Ron Parigoris




























________________________________  Message 30  ____________________________________


Time: 06:42:51 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Is a Relay Needed?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 08:08 AM 2/15/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alexander, Don"
><Don.Alexander@aste...>
>
>I am getting ready to wire up my Ray Allen stick control buttons.  One
>of the functions that I am using will be for the flaps.  (RV-8)  I have
>tested the flap motor without an "air" load on the flaps and get a bit
>over two amps when running.  Ray Allen indicates that their switches are
>rated for five amps.  Do I need to include a relay in my circuit with
>this sort of margin?
>Regards,
>Don Alexander

   Yes. Inrush currents on your motors are perhaps 10x bigger
   than running currents. Suggest you pick from among the varieties
   at:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Flight/Flaps/Flaps.pdf

   Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 31  ____________________________________


Time: 06:44:12 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: instrument wiring

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 10:35 PM 2/14/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris & Kellie Hand"
><ckhand@eart...>
>
>I'm working on installing wiring and panel stuff in my RV-6A.  The Van's
>fuel gage and ammeter installation instructions say to use 18 AWG wire for
>the power, ground, and sensor wires on the fuel gages and for the power
>and ground wire on the ammeter.  I didn't read that until after wiring up
>with 22 AWG as I didn't think the current draw was significant enough to
>warrant anything bigger - based this on an estimate of ~0.4 amps max per
>instrument from reference material I looked at (yes, I looked through
>several books but didn't read the instructions that came with the
>instruments....).
>
>Am I that far out on my load estimates?  Anybody think 18 AWG is really
>necessary for powering these instruments?  I'm wiring these independently,
>not daisy chaining them as shown in the Van's drawings.

    No, 22AWG is plenty for anything an instrument would need
    for either power, signal or lighting conductors.

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 32  ____________________________________


Time: 06:45:44 PM PST US
From: "Garland Edwards" <eddieedwards@mind...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Link for Small Volt meter

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Garland Edwards" <eddieedwards@mind...>

Saw this on another site.  Hope this helps.
Ed

http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=572-0002&SEARCH=volt+meter&ID=&DESC=EMV1200


Garland Edwards
eddieedwards@mind...
EarthLink Revolves Around You.












________________________________  Message 33  ____________________________________


Time: 07:03:59 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Link for Small Volt meter

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 09:45 PM 2/15/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Garland Edwards"
><eddieedwards@mind...>
>
>Saw this on another site.  Hope this helps.
>Ed
>
>http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=572-0002&SEARCH=volt+meter&ID=&DESC=EMV1200

    Cute! Hadn't seen that product yet. Great price too.

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 34  ____________________________________


Time: 07:12:15 PM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of   Main?
From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej...>

Robert L. Nuckolls, III Main? wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Main?

>     How would you not know the main bus was off? That
>     takes the whole panel down. What failure would you
>     anticipate would produce this effect?
>

Well, I never claimed I was omnipotent...  *grin*

I was thinking something along the lines of the main
alternator going offline, the main panel running on battery,
and then the aux alternator kicks in on the aux buss.
Depending on how things are wired, it may be possible for
the main buss to be running off the main battery with no
main alternator, and the E-buss to be running off another
battery and be on the aux alternator.  If this was the case
and the low voltage were wired to the aux buss, you may
not immediately realize that you lost your alternator
on the main buss.

At least that's what occurred to me from his initial
query.  I never claimed it had to make sense...  heh heh  :-)

do not archive

-Dj

--
Dj Merrill
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118
http://econ.duke.edu/~deej/sportsman/

"TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation"












________________________________  Message 35  ____________________________________


Time: 09:38:17 PM PST US
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@tele...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Small voltmeter.....

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@tele...>

http://www.martelmeters.com/pdf/QM_100V.pdf


Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV,  492TC
Elmore City, OK


















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