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a : aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com 17 February 2006 • 3:55PM -0500

AeroElectric-List Digest: 33 Msgs - 02/16/06
by AeroElectric-List Digest Server

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                           AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
                                      ---
                     Total Messages Posted Thu 02/16/06: 33
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------

     1. 01:33 AM - Re: Small Voltmeter  (rd2@even...)
     2. 06:35 AM - Re: Link for Small Volt meter  (Carlos Trigo)
     3. 09:59 AM - Molex Tool  (Jerry2DT@aol....)
     4. 10:05 AM - Re: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main?  (Scott)
     5. 10:29 AM - fluid level sensor needed  (Mickey Coggins)
     6. 10:56 AM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (Mark R Steitle)
     7. 11:19 AM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
     8. 11:43 AM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (Mickey Coggins)
     9. 12:01 PM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (Fiveonepw@aol....)
    10. 12:22 PM - Re: Molex Tool  (bnoon12@comc...)
    11. 12:22 PM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (Ron)
    12. 12:22 PM - Re: Molex Tool  (bnoon12@comc...)
    13. 01:08 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at once?  (Jon Goguen)
    14. 01:35 PM - Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open barrel terminals  (Jon Goguen)
    15. 01:57 PM - You think alternators are safe?  (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
    16. 01:58 PM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (Mickey Coggins)
    17. 02:25 PM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (Earl_Schroeder)
    18. 03:42 PM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (_)
    19. 03:53 PM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (Matt Prather)
    20. 04:14 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at once?  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    21. 04:14 PM - Re: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main?  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    22. 04:15 PM - Re: Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open barrel terminals  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    23. 04:15 PM - Re: is a relay needed?  (Erich_Weaver@URSC...)
    24. 04:27 PM - Re: You think alternators are safe?  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    25. 04:42 PM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (Earl_Schroeder)
    26. 04:42 PM - Re: Molex Tool  (SteinAir, Inc.)
    27. 05:02 PM - Re: Molex Tool  (sportav8r@aol....)
    28. 05:35 PM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (Matt Prather)
    29. 05:35 PM - Re: Molex Tool  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    30. 05:35 PM - Re: fluid level sensor needed  (Paul McAllister)
    31. 06:36 PM - Re: Molex Tool  (Lynn Riggs)
    32. 07:30 PM - Re: Molex Tool  (sportav8r@aol....)
    33. 07:32 PM - SS firewall penetration hardware  (sportav8r@aol....)



________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 01:33:29 AM PST US
From: rd2@even...
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Small Voltmeter

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@even...

Hi Ron,

Some time ago I was searching for the same thing. These have digital LED
display; mounting bezel is available; the size is approximately of a hobbs
hour meter. Kinda liked LED better, because it needs no backlighting and is
much less temperature sensitive than LCD.

Main page:
http://store.cd4power.com/cgi-bin/cd4power.storefront/43f4387d045486c2271d0c
9f894206c0/Catalog/1013

Digital panel DC Volt meters (2 wire):
http://store.cd4power.com/cgi-bin/cd4power.storefront/43f4387d045486c2271d0c
9f894206c0/Catalog/1042

I might still have a DMS-20PC-1-DCM V-meter that I can't use (8-50 VDC, red
LED, 2 wire) - see:
http://store.cd4power.com/cgi-bin/cd4power.storefront/43f4387d045486c2271d0c
9f894206c0/Product/View/8076830
Data sheet: http://www.cd4power.com/data/meters/pc0-dcms.pdf

I think I might also have a DCA5-20PC Ammeter that I don't need (w/shunt, 3
wire, blue LED) - see:
http://store.cd4power.com/cgi-bin/cd4power.storefront/43f4387d045486c2271d0c
9f894206c0/Catalog/1247
Data sheet: http://www.cd4power.com/data/meters/dca520pc.pdf

Rumen
do not archive
_____________________Original message __________________________
                  (received from rparigor@SUFF...; Date: 08:48 PM
2/15/2006 -0000)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suff...>

I need a "SMALL" high quality voltmeter to put in the headrest of our
Europa. Bar or Digital OK but with reasonable accuracy between 11 and 17V.

Anybody know where to get one?

Thx.
Ron Parigoris














________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 06:35:24 AM PST US
From: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Link for Small Volt meter

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo@mail...>

And it works very well. Got 2 in my panel, not flying yet, but worked good
so far in bench experiences.

Carlos

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:01 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Link for Small Volt meter


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox....>
>
> At 09:45 PM 2/15/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Garland Edwards"
>><eddieedwards@mind...>
>>
>>Saw this on another site.  Hope this helps.
>>Ed
>>
>>http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=572-0002&SEARCH=volt+meter&ID=&DESC=EMV1200
>
>    Cute! Hadn't seen that product yet. Great price too.
>
>    Bob . . .
>
>
>














________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 09:59:44 AM PST US
From: Jerry2DT@aol....
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....


Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures  
.022x.053x.400" on business end.

Jerry


Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual  refers to a
Molex connector pin removal tool.
Where can it be  obtained?

Carlos

















________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 10:05:40 AM PST US
From: "Scott" <scott@rand...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of Main?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott" <scott@rand...>

Dj,

My thought was that activating the standby alternator would be a manual
process so the light would stay on until pilot action was taken.  As Bob
points out, if _both_ alternators fail, I'd get a continuosly blinking
light, but I really hope both don't fail on the same day!  I suppose I could
use the low voltage detection to activate the standby relay, but then it'd
kick in anytime the engine wasn't spinning (ie: before start when it'd burn
a little current in the coil).  Hmm.  Maybe I'll give some more thought to
that tradeoff.  Automatic or manual activation?  What have others done and
why?

A big question, though, is would the diode drop Bob mentioned be enough to
generate a false indication of low voltage if I were sensing the E-bus.  Is
the aeroelectric part "setable" or forgiving enough to account for that?  If
not I guess I'd be compelled to go with switching in front of the low
voltage warning if I want it to see the E-bus when the main is offline.

Thanks for the food for thought.

-----Original Message-----

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott" <scott@rand...>
>
>The Z13-8 diagram shows the low voltage warning light connected to the main
>bus.  It seems to me like connecting it to the E-bus would be slightly more
>useful.....   <SNIP>  
>

    How would you know if the main buss went offline?
If you happened to be looking out the window in the brief
time that it might light until the standby alt kicked in
automatically, you might never see the warning.

    I suppose you could hook the low voltage warning "sensor" to a switch,
initially monitoring the main buss, and then you manually
switch it to the E-buss and thus "acknowledge" the warning.

-Dj



















________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 10:29:43 AM PST US
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>

Hi,

I'm looking for a fluid level sensor that I
will use in my Subaru engine cooling system.

I've found lots of on/off switches that will
tell me if there is coolant there or not, but
does anyone know of a reasonably priced sensor
that will give me analog output over a range
of values?  Reasonably priced means to me
something less than about $250.

Thanks!
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing












________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 10:56:49 AM PST US
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed
From: "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle@aust...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark R Steitle" <mark.steitle@aust...>

Mickey,
How much space do you have to work with?  Maybe you could use a
float-type fuel level sensor and shorten the arm so that it fits inside
the reservoir.

Mark S.  

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of
Mickey Coggins
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:28 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
<mick-matronics@rv8....>

Hi,

I'm looking for a fluid level sensor that I
will use in my Subaru engine cooling system.

I've found lots of on/off switches that will
tell me if there is coolant there or not, but
does anyone know of a reasonably priced sensor
that will give me analog output over a range
of values?  Reasonably priced means to me
something less than about $250.

Thanks!
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
























________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 11:19:29 AM PST US
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.c...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.c...>

I don't know about a level sensor but in my ea81 I use a pressure
guage...If pressure goes away after take off it means I have a leak and
have to land anyway...Its worked pretty well for 400 hours.

Just an idea

Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of
Mickey Coggins
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:28 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
--> <mick-matronics@rv8....>

Hi,

I'm looking for a fluid level sensor that I will use in my Subaru engine
cooling system.

I've found lots of on/off switches that will tell me if there is coolant
there or not, but does anyone know of a reasonably priced sensor that
will give me analog output over a range of values?  Reasonably priced
means to me something less than about $250.

Thanks!
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing

























________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 11:43:22 AM PST US
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>

> How much space do you have to work with?  Maybe you could use a
> float-type fuel level sensor and shorten the arm so that it fits inside
> the reservoir.

The tank is 4"x4"x3" so there is not a lot of space.

It will be a "zero pressure" system, or very low pressure.

Thanks,
Mickey

--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing


do not archive












________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 12:01:34 PM PST US
From: Fiveonepw@aol....
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol....

Have you taken a look at McMaster Carr?

click on:  http://www.mcmaster.com/
and go to page 490- they have several pages of float switches for many uses.  
Good folks to deal with- they sell a LOT of RV parts!

Mark Phillips













________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 12:22:01 PM PST US
From: bnoon12@comc...
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: bnoon12@comc...

Carlos,
After reading your post, I found this web page that seems to answer your question
and supports Jerry's answer as well.

bruce
--
(520) 760-5925
Tucson,AZ 85750

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jerry2DT@aol....

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....
>
>
> Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
> .022x.053x.400" on business end.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
> Molex connector pin removal tool.
> Where can it be obtained?
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Carlos,
After reading your post, I found this web page that seems to answer your question
and supports Jerry's answer as well.

bruce
--
(520) 760-5925
Tucson,AZ 85750

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jerry2DT@aol....

-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....


Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
.022x.053x.400" on business end.

Jerry


Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
Molex connector pin removal tool.
Where can it be obtained?

Carlos








t, FAQ,






















________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 12:22:43 PM PST US
From: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ron" <rondefly@rtri...>

You could use the fuel warning system, I am using it on my header tank when
it is low. It should work in the Rad also. Here is the ACS #,  P/N 6905-400
$28.70

Ron Triano
http://bld01.ipowerweb.com/contentmanagement/websites/rtrianoc/page10.html
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of Mickey
Coggins
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
<mick-matronics@rv8....>

> How much space do you have to work with?  Maybe you could use a
> float-type fuel level sensor and shorten the arm so that it fits inside
> the reservoir.

The tank is 4"x4"x3" so there is not a lot of space.

It will be a "zero pressure" system, or very low pressure.

Thanks,
Mickey

--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing


do not archive



























________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 12:22:43 PM PST US
From: bnoon12@comc...
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: bnoon12@comc...

http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm
Carlos,
After reading your post, I found this web page that seems to answer your question
and supports Jerry's answer as well.

bruce
--
(520) 760-5925
Tucson,AZ 85750

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jerry2DT@aol....

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....
>
>
> Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
> .022x.053x.400" on business end.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
> Molex connector pin removal tool.
> Where can it be obtained?
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

http://www.berkut13.com/extractor.htm

Carlos,
After reading your post, I found this web page that seems to answer your question
and supports Jerry's answer as well.

bruce
--
(520) 760-5925
Tucson,AZ 85750

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Jerry2DT@aol....

-- AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....


Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
.022x.053x.400" on business end.

Jerry


Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual refers to a
Molex connector pin removal tool.
Where can it be obtained?

Carlos








t, FAQ,






















________________________________  Message 13  ____________________________________


Time: 01:08:49 PM PST US
From: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umas...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at once?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umas...>

Scott,

Unless special provisions are made, an over voltage condition on one
alternator would trigger the over voltage protection on both.

Jon


Jon Goguen
jon.goguen@umas...
Central Massachusetts
Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved)
Complete except for electrics and avionics

"Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind"
--Woody Allen

On Feb 14, 2006, at 7:01 PM, Scott wrote:

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Scott" <scott@rand...>
>
> Would it be "bad" if the main alternator was still running and the
> standby
> alternator were engaged?  My assumption is that which ever alternator's
> regulator had the higher set point would max itself out (assuming a
> high
> enough load) and the other alternator would pick up the rest (or idle)
> with
> no ill effect on the system overall.  Is this true, or are there
> issues I'm
> missing like dynamic circuit response causing some kind of feedback or
> the
> smaller SD8 burning itself up?  A related question:  If the load is
> greater
> than the SD-8 can support is there any consequence other than the
> battery
> supplying the extra required current?  For instance if I flip on the
> battery
> master and run landing lights or pitot heat or something.
>
> Thanks again!
>
> Scott.
>
>













________________________________  Message 14  ____________________________________


Time: 01:35:22 PM PST US
From: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umas...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open barrel terminals

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umas...>

Hi All,

Looking for a crimper that will handle large open barrel female
terminals that fit 0.375" quck-connect males.  These are the only 0.375
quick connect females I have been able to find.  I could use closed
barrel insulated or uninsulated females if anybody can tell me where to
get them.

Thanks!

Jon

Jon Goguen
jon.goguen@umas...
Central Massachusetts
Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved)
Complete except for electrics and avionics

"Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind"
--Woody Allen
On Feb 16, 2006, at 1:03 PM, Scott wrote:













________________________________  Message 15  ____________________________________


Time: 01:57:44 PM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: You think alternators are safe?
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.c...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.c...>

Afternoon all,

One of my part time jobs is to be on call as an Incident commander for a
large blue chip wafer fab plant.

Last night we had a Ford Mustang pull into one of our employee parking
lots and the "charge lamp" came on as the employee was looking for his
spot.

Half an hour later (12:30 am thankyou!) I was awoken by the pager going
off saying the car was on fire. And had had involved 4 other vehicles.

By the time the Fire Deprtment got there the thing was fully engulfed
with 20 foot flames...Fortunatly the gas tank was not involved.

This morning...sure enough, signs that the fire started at the
alternator but the battery was completely melted in what looks like
feeding an internal short on the alternator.

Of course you know I was thinking, "I sure glad to have a way to
disconnect the alt"!!!

Frank
Zodiac flying 400 hours
RV7a finishing up prior to paint













________________________________  Message 16  ____________________________________


Time: 01:58:39 PM PST US
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>

> Have you taken a look at McMaster Carr?
>
> click on:  http://www.mcmaster.com/
> and go to page 490- they have several pages of float switches for many uses.

> Good folks to deal with- they sell a LOT of RV parts!

Oh, yes, I know McMaster-Carr, as does my credit card.

I could only find on/off switches there, no analog switches.

I might have to punt on this and just go with a NO/NC
type switch.  Perhaps I'm trying to get too fancy.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing


do not archive












________________________________  Message 17  ____________________________________


Time: 02:25:54 PM PST US
From: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno...>

If memory serves me correctly, Jim Weir had a 'cheap' do it yourself
capacitance probe and op amp amplifier project several years ago.  You
might search his site.  Or the publication KitPlanes archives.  Earl
do not archive

Mickey Coggins wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>
>
>  
>> Have you taken a look at McMaster Carr?
>>
>> click on:  http://www.mcmaster.com/
>> and go to page 490- they have several pages of float switches for many uses.

>> Good folks to deal with- they sell a LOT of RV parts!
>>    
>
> Oh, yes, I know McMaster-Carr, as does my credit card.
>
> I could only find on/off switches there, no analog switches.
>
> I might have to punt on this and just go with a NO/NC
> type switch.  Perhaps I'm trying to get too fancy.
>
> Thanks for all the suggestions!
>
>  












________________________________  Message 18  ____________________________________


Time: 03:42:30 PM PST US
From: "_" <raymondj@fron...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "_" <raymondj@fron...>

Would it meet your needs to use 2 or 3 float switches with the floats set at
different levels. The fluid level could be defined within a range based
which switches are closed/open.

Good luck,
rayj

Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics@rv8....>
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 12:27 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
> <mick-matronics@rv8....>
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking for a fluid level sensor that I
> will use in my Subaru engine cooling system.
>
> I've found lots of on/off switches that will
> tell me if there is coolant there or not, but
> does anyone know of a reasonably priced sensor
> that will give me analog output over a range
> of values?  Reasonably priced means to me
> something less than about $250.
>
> Thanks!
> Mickey
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
>
>
>














________________________________  Message 19  ____________________________________


Time: 03:53:04 PM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro...>


Capacitors require a fairly decent dielectric media for the
between-the-plates insulator.  Coolant isn't that (dielectric nor
insulating)...

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder
> <Earl_Schroeder@juno...>
>
> If memory serves me correctly, Jim Weir had a 'cheap' do it yourself
> capacitance probe and op amp amplifier project several years ago.  You
> might search his site.  Or the publication KitPlanes archives.  Earl do
> not archive
>
> Mickey Coggins wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
>> <mick-matronics@rv8....>
>>
>>
>>> Have you taken a look at McMaster Carr?
>>>
>>> click on:  http://www.mcmaster.com/
>>> and go to page 490- they have several pages of float switches for
>>> many uses.   Good folks to deal with- they sell a LOT of RV parts!
>>>
>>
>> Oh, yes, I know McMaster-Carr, as does my credit card.
>>
>> I could only find on/off switches there, no analog switches.
>>
>> I might have to punt on this and just go with a NO/NC
>> type switch.  Perhaps I'm trying to get too fancy.
>>
>> Thanks for all the suggestions!
>>
>>
>
>















________________________________  Message 20  ____________________________________


Time: 04:14:59 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>   once?
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-13/8 Bad if both alternators on at   once?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
once?

At 01:52 PM 2/16/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umas...>
>
>Scott,
>
>Unless special provisions are made, an over voltage condition on one
>alternator would trigger the over voltage protection on both.
>
>Jon

    I designed the SB-1 alternator for B&C such that it
    KNOWS which of the two alternators is causing the OV
    condition. An OV condition on the main alternator will
    not trip the OV protection in the standby alternator
    when wired per Z-12.

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 21  ____________________________________


Time: 04:14:59 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>   Main?
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Low Voltage Warn on E-Bus instead of     Main?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Main?

At 10:10 PM 2/15/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej...>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III Main? wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox....>   Main?
>
> >     How would you not know the main bus was off? That
> >     takes the whole panel down. What failure would you
> >     anticipate would produce this effect?
> >
>
>         Well, I never claimed I was omnipotent...  *grin*
>
>I was thinking something along the lines of the main
>alternator going offline, the main panel running on battery,
>and then the aux alternator kicks in on the aux buss.

    What architecture are you talking about . . . which
    one of the Z-figures? Your citations of main and aux
    bus don't bring a clear image to mind.

>Depending on how things are wired, it may be possible for
>the main buss to be running off the main battery with no
>main alternator, and the E-buss to be running off another
>battery and be on the aux alternator.

     Oh. Okay. Z-14 . . . then you don't need an e-bus.

>   If this was the case
>and the low voltage were wired to the aux buss, you may
>not immediately realize that you lost your alternator
>on the main buss.

     If you run Z-14, then BOTH systems have their own
     independent low voltage warnings.



      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
      < with experiment.                                      >
      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >













________________________________  Message 22  ____________________________________


Time: 04:15:59 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>   barrel terminals
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimper for large (AWG 10-6) open   barrel terminals

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
barrel terminals

At 04:09 PM 2/16/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umas...>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Looking for a crimper that will handle large open barrel female
>terminals that fit 0.375" quck-connect males.  These are the only 0.375
>quick connect females I have been able to find.  I could use closed
>barrel insulated or uninsulated females if anybody can tell me where to
>get them.

    Are these a "fast-on" style connector? For 6AWG wire?
    Where do you plan to use them?

    Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 23  ____________________________________


Time: 04:15:59 PM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: re: is a relay needed?
From: Erich_Weaver@URSC...

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Erich_Weaver@URSC...


>I am getting ready to wire up my Ray Allen stick control buttons.  One
>of the functions that I am using will be for the flaps.  (RV-8)  I have
>tested the flap motor without an "air" load on the flaps and get a bit
>over two amps when running.  Ray Allen indicates that their switches are
>rated for five amps.  Do I need to include a relay in my circuit with
>this sort of margin?
>Regards,
>Don Alexander

Don:

Im doing a similar set up on my RV-7A.  Make your life easy - Vans has a
flap controller circuit board all ready for you.  Check it out at:

http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1140134994-90-39&action=search

Erich Weaver













________________________________  Message 24  ____________________________________


Time: 04:27:51 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: You think alternators are safe?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 01:55 PM 2/16/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
><frank.hinde@hp.c...>
>
>Afternoon all,
>
>One of my part time jobs is to be on call as an Incident commander for a
>large blue chip wafer fab plant.
>
>Last night we had a Ford Mustang pull into one of our employee parking
>lots and the "charge lamp" came on as the employee was looking for his
>spot.
>
>Half an hour later (12:30 am thankyou!) I was awoken by the pager going
>off saying the car was on fire. And had had involved 4 other vehicles.
>
>By the time the Fire Deprtment got there the thing was fully engulfed
>with 20 foot flames...Fortunatly the gas tank was not involved.
>
>This morning...sure enough, signs that the fire started at the
>alternator but the battery was completely melted in what looks like
>feeding an internal short on the alternator.
>
>Of course you know I was thinking, "I sure glad to have a way to
>disconnect the alt"!!!

   This is the one fallacy in the automotive fusible-link philosophy.
   Fusible links do fine for hard faults (over in tens of milliseconds
   and relatively low energy). However, like ANL current limiters, they're
   even more insensitive to soft faults that can operate for protracted
   periods of time and dump megajoules of energy into the surrounding
   combustibles.

   This is a hypothesis of course but the alternators are generally
   hard-wired to the battery with only a fusible link for fault protection.
   I've had several wrestling matches with both engineers and regulatory
   bureaucrats about the relative safety of conventional fuses, breakers
   and limiters for certain applications. AC43-13 states:

11-48. DETERMINATION OF CIRCUIT
BREAKER RATINGS. Circuit protection
devices must be sized to supply open circuit
capability. A circuit breaker must be rated so
that it will open before the current rating of the
wire attached to it is exceeded, or before the
cumulative rating of all loads connected to it
are exceeded, whichever is lowest. A circuit
breaker must always open before any component
downstream can overheat and generate
smoke or fire. Wires must be sized to carry
continuous current in excess of the circuit
protective device rating, including its time current
characteristics, and to avoid excessive
voltage drop. Refer to section 5 for wire rating
methods.

   If this is interpreted to be a requirement, then it cannot
   be complied with using contemporary I(squared)*R overcurrent
   detecting devices; I.e., thermal breakers, fat fuses or
   ANL limiters and particularly fusible links.

   Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 25  ____________________________________


Time: 04:42:10 PM PST US
From: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder <Earl_Schroeder@juno...>

Not to be 'picky' here but insulated probes will measure a conductive
liquid quite well... used a bunch back at GE.  Earl
do not archive

Matt Prather wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro...>
>
>
> Capacitors require a fairly decent dielectric media for the
> between-the-plates insulator.  Coolant isn't that (dielectric nor
> insulating)...
>
>  
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder
>> <Earl_Schroeder@juno...>
>>
>> If memory serves me correctly, Jim Weir had a 'cheap' do it yourself
>> capacitance probe and op amp amplifier project several years ago.  You
>> might search his site.  Or the publication KitPlanes archives.  Earl do
>> not archive
>>
>> Mickey Coggins wrote:
>>    
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
>>> <mick-matronics@rv8....>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>> Have you taken a look at McMaster Carr?
>>>>
>>>> click on:  http://www.mcmaster.com/
>>>> and go to page 490- they have several pages of float switches for
>>>> many uses.   Good folks to deal with- they sell a LOT of RV parts!
>>>>
>>>>        
>>> Oh, yes, I know McMaster-Carr, as does my credit card.
>>>
>>> I could only find on/off switches there, no analog switches.
>>>
>>> I might have to punt on this and just go with a NO/NC
>>> type switch.  Perhaps I'm trying to get too fancy.
>>>
>>> Thanks for all the suggestions!
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>
>
>  
>  
>  
>
>
>  












________________________________  Message 26  ____________________________________


Time: 04:42:10 PM PST US
From: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein@stei...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein@stei...>

There are a few "double secret" ways to make your own tool and save the $40
for the Mil Spec one which you'll break just as quickly.

1) Take a hacksaw blade, cut it to about 4 inches long, then take it over to
the belt sander and make a nice pointy end on it that is about .030" wide.
Works perfectly and when you break it (not if, but when), you just go make
it new again!

2) unfold a paper clip, then smash one end of it flat for about 3/8" inch
with a hammer.  Works well in a pinch.

3) do the same as step 2 with one your wifes Bobby Pins

4) Same as above with .030 or .040 safety wire.

All of the above work great, but the most robust is to use an old hacksaw
blade and your sander to create a $40 tool for about $.50.

Just my 2 cents an usual!

Cheers,
Stein.

P.S., remember that if you're a bit "over agressive" on pushing up the tang
when you remove those pins that they won't stay inserted the next time you
put them into the right slot unless you reshape it slightly.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...]On Behalf Of
>Jerry2DT@aol....
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:54 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matr...
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....
>
>
>Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
>.022x.053x.400" on business end.
>
>Jerry
>
>
>Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual
>refers to a
>Molex connector pin removal tool.
>Where can it be  obtained?
>
>Carlos
>
>














________________________________  Message 27  ____________________________________


Time: 05:02:41 PM PST US
From: sportav8r@aol....
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol....

How does one go about using this tool to remove pins?  The professional tools I've
(tried to) use are cylindrical.  Does one take the flat blade you describe
and pry inward on each ear of the pin, one at a time?  How to keep the other
side from springing back?

-Bill B

-----Original Message-----
From: SteinAir, Inc. <stein@stei...>
Sent: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:42:56 -0600
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc." <stein@stei...>

There are a few "double secret" ways to make your own tool and save the $40
for the Mil Spec one which you'll break just as quickly.

1) Take a hacksaw blade, cut it to about 4 inches long, then take it over to
the belt sander and make a nice pointy end on it that is about .030" wide.
Works perfectly and when you break it (not if, but when), you just go make
it new again!

2) unfold a paper clip, then smash one end of it flat for about 3/8" inch
with a hammer.  Works well in a pinch.

3) do the same as step 2 with one your wifes Bobby Pins

4) Same as above with .030 or .040 safety wire.

All of the above work great, but the most robust is to use an old hacksaw
blade and your sander to create a $40 tool for about $.50.

Just my 2 cents an usual!

Cheers,
Stein.

P.S., remember that if you're a bit "over agressive" on pushing up the tang
when you remove those pins that they won't stay inserted the next time you
put them into the right slot unless you reshape it slightly.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...]On Behalf Of
>Jerry2DT@aol....
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:54 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matr...
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....
>
>
>Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
>.022x.053x.400" on business end.
>
>Jerry
>
>
>Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual
>refers to a
>Molex connector pin removal tool.
>Where can it be  obtained?
>
>Carlos
>
>
























________________________________  Message 28  ____________________________________


Time: 05:35:01 PM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro...>


Good point.  How tough is it to make a probe that doesn't leak too bad..
I guess leakage adds series R to the RC circuit, so probably isn't too
critical, though I think it will damp the oscillator circuit.

http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/articles/KP89SEP.pdf

Discussion on dielctric strength.

http://www.usm.maine.edu/~newton/Chy251_253/Lectures/Solvents/Solvents.html

http://www.clippercontrols.com/info/dielectric_constants.html

This is still going to be a challenge - the glycol to water ratio isn't
always going to be the same, and the dielectric strength of water varies
with temperature..

How about a little camera with a light that lets you actually see a sight
tube??  :)  Put the sight tube for the coolant next to a sight tube for
the engine oil level.  Have the camera display to the cockpit on a little
LCD..

Or how about adapt a fishfinder - mount it in the bottom of a tube within
the reservoir - pointed up, with a little float in the top of the tube.
The fishfinder will detect the distance between the sensor and the float.
Might have to work on improving the shallow water resolution.


Regards,

Matt-


> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder
> <Earl_Schroeder@juno...>
>
> Not to be 'picky' here but insulated probes will measure a conductive
> liquid quite well... used a bunch back at GE.  Earl
> do not archive
>
> Matt Prather wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather"
>> <mprather@spro...>
>>
>>
>> Capacitors require a fairly decent dielectric media for the
>> between-the-plates insulator.  Coolant isn't that (dielectric nor
>> insulating)...
>>
>>
>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Earl_Schroeder
>>> <Earl_Schroeder@juno...>
>>>
>>> If memory serves me correctly, Jim Weir had a 'cheap' do it yourself
>>> capacitance probe and op amp amplifier project several years ago.
>>> You might search his site.  Or the publication KitPlanes archives.
>>> Earl do not archive
>>>
>>> Mickey Coggins wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
>>>> <mick-matronics@rv8....>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Have you taken a look at McMaster Carr?
>>>>>
>>>>> click on:  http://www.mcmaster.com/
>>>>> and go to page 490- they have several pages of float switches for
>>>>> many uses.   Good folks to deal with- they sell a LOT of RV parts!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Oh, yes, I know McMaster-Carr, as does my credit card.
>>>>
>>>> I could only find on/off switches there, no analog switches.
>>>>
>>>> I might have to punt on this and just go with a NO/NC
>>>> type switch.  Perhaps I'm trying to get too fancy.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all the suggestions!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>















________________________________  Message 29  ____________________________________


Time: 05:35:01 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 08:00 PM 2/16/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol....
>
>How does one go about using this tool to remove pins?  The professional
>tools I've (tried to) use are cylindrical.  Does one take the flat blade
>you describe and pry inward on each ear of the pin, one at a time?  How to
>keep the other side from springing back?
>
>-Bill B

       The typical terminal has a barb on the side away
       from the spring loaded electrical contact. See:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_2478_Pins.pdf

       When inserted into the housing, the barb engages
       a notch on the housing's inside surface as shown in
       cross section Z-Z of:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_6422.pdf

      To extract the pin, a thin rectangular probe of appropriate
      dimensions is pushed along side the terminal from the
      board-side face such that it depresses the barb and releases
      the pin.

      Before re-inserting a pin, it's a good idea to spring the barb
      outward a tad . . . extracting them often causes the barb to
      lay flatter against the terminal and compromises retention.

      Bob . . .













________________________________  Message 30  ____________________________________


Time: 05:35:02 PM PST US
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia....>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: fluid level sensor needed

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia....>

Hi,

I built a fuel tank gauge based off a 0 ~ 1 " pressure transducer for my
Europa. Although you only have 0 ~ 4 " of head, I would say from my bench
experiments that this device is sensitive enough for your needs.

The sensor was a Honeywell 26PCAFA6D  and I amplified its output with a
INA118P instrumentation op amp.  It would cost you less than $25 in parts to
experiment with and I am confident that it would work for you.

Regards,  Paul














________________________________  Message 31  ____________________________________


Time: 06:36:29 PM PST US
From: Lynn Riggs <riggs_la@yaho...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Lynn Riggs <riggs_la@yaho...>

One end should be cylindrical but the other end should have a side open so you
can slip it over the pin.

sportav8r@aol.... wrote: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol....

How does one go about using this tool to remove pins? The professional tools I've
(tried to) use are cylindrical. Does one take the flat blade you describe and
pry inward on each ear of the pin, one at a time? How to keep the other side
from springing back?

-Bill B

-----Original Message-----
From: SteinAir, Inc.
Sent: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 18:42:56 -0600
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "SteinAir, Inc."

There are a few "double secret" ways to make your own tool and save the $40
for the Mil Spec one which you'll break just as quickly.

1) Take a hacksaw blade, cut it to about 4 inches long, then take it over to
the belt sander and make a nice pointy end on it that is about .030" wide.
Works perfectly and when you break it (not if, but when), you just go make
it new again!

2) unfold a paper clip, then smash one end of it flat for about 3/8" inch
with a hammer.  Works well in a pinch.

3) do the same as step 2 with one your wifes Bobby Pins

4) Same as above with .030 or .040 safety wire.

All of the above work great, but the most robust is to use an old hacksaw
blade and your sander to create a $40 tool for about $.50.

Just my 2 cents an usual!

Cheers,
Stein.

P.S., remember that if you're a bit "over agressive" on pushing up the tang
when you remove those pins that they won't stay inserted the next time you
put them into the right slot unless you reshape it slightly.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...]On Behalf Of
>Jerry2DT@aol....
>Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:54 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matr...
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol....
>
>
>Any Avionics shop, or might be easy to make. Mine is SS, measures
>.022x.053x.400" on business end.
>
>Jerry
>
>
>Speaking of Molex connector pins, the A200 installation manual
>refers to a
>Molex connector pin removal tool.
>Where can it be  obtained?
>
>Carlos
>
>



























Lynn A. Riggs
riggs_la@yaho...
St. Paul, MN
BH #656 Kit #22
http://home.comcast.net/~lariggs/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with












________________________________  Message 32  ____________________________________


Time: 07:30:03 PM PST US
From: sportav8r@aol....
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol....

Oh.  Never mind :-)  I was thinking of the round pins, as in Mate-N -Loc, and Radio
Shack variety Molex connectors.  I've never encountered the type you're depicting
here.

If I do, I'll keep that in mind.  Meanwhile, I find the commercial extractor tools
for the round-barrel pins are really hard to use and cause profanity ;-)

-BB

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox....>
Sent: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 19:33:29 -0600
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Molex Tool


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox....>

At 08:00 PM 2/16/2006 -0500, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol....
>
>How does one go about using this tool to remove pins?  The professional
>tools I've (tried to) use are cylindrical.  Does one take the flat blade
>you describe and pry inward on each ear of the pin, one at a time?  How to
>keep the other side from springing back?
>
>-Bill B

       The typical terminal has a barb on the side away
       from the spring loaded electrical contact. See:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_2478_Pins.pdf

       When inserted into the housing, the barb engages
       a notch on the housing's inside surface as shown in
       cross section Z-Z of:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/Molex_6422.pdf

      To extract the pin, a thin rectangular probe of appropriate
      dimensions is pushed along side the terminal from the
      board-side face such that it depresses the barb and releases
      the pin.

      Before re-inserting a pin, it's a good idea to spring the barb
      outward a tad . . . extracting them often causes the barb to
      lay flatter against the terminal and compromises retention.

      Bob . . .























________________________________  Message 33  ____________________________________


Time: 07:32:30 PM PST US
From: sportav8r@aol....
Subject: AeroElectric-List: SS firewall penetration hardware

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol....

Is there firesleeve available to work with the Home Depot 1.5" SS grab bar for
roll-your-own firewall penetrations?  If so, what "hose size" do I look for to
equal 1.5" ID or OD?  I'm getting the feeling after bringing home a 1.5" grab
bar that I should have ordered the 1.25" stuff from McMaster-Carr.  Even so,
I'm still not sure what stock # of firesleeve will fit this.  Any tips?

Thanks.

I have the itumescent caulk from the Aviation department at Lowe's.  That was the
easy part.

-Bill B


















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