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a : aeroelectric-list-digest@matronics.com 23 February 2006 • 3:55PM -0500

AeroElectric-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 02/22/06
by AeroElectric-List Digest Server

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                     Total Messages Posted Wed 02/22/06: 20
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------

     1. 12:12 AM - Grab-bar FW penetration  (John Burnaby)
     2. 01:48 AM - Re: Grab-bar FW penetration  (Mickey Coggins)
     3. 04:27 AM - Re: [Possible SPAM] Re: Honeywell....a short rant...  (Harley)
     4. 06:26 AM - Re: Grab-bar FW penetration  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 06:58 AM - Re: Question for Bob or ?  (S Hamer)
     6. 06:58 AM - Voltmeter location (was: Question for Bob or ?)  (Brian Lloyd)
     7. 07:38 AM - Re: Question for Bob or ?  (Pat Hatch)
     8. 08:18 AM - Strange alternator behavior at Startup  (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
     9. 08:42 AM - Re: Strange alternator behavior at Startup  (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
    10. 10:31 AM - Re: Strange alternator behavior at Startup  (Jon Goguen)
    11. 11:36 AM - Re: Z-14 FADEC Version Question  (dannylsmith)
    12. 11:56 AM - Re: Grab-bar FW penetration  (John Burnaby)
    13. 12:13 PM - Re: Temperature compensation, UMA CHT  (AI Nut)
    14. 02:00 PM - Splicing strobe wires  (Jekyll)
    15. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: Grab-bar FW penetration  (Bruce Gray)
    16. 06:20 PM - Re: Splicing strobe wires  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    17. 06:20 PM - Re: Grab-bar FW penetration  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    18. 06:53 PM - Re: Splicing strobe wires  (Joemotis@aol....)
    19. 09:07 PM - Re: carrier only problem  (Charlie Brame)
    20. 10:20 PM - Transponder/ RS-232  (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)



________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 12:12:47 AM PST US
From: "John Burnaby" <jonlaury@impu...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grab-bar FW penetration

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" <jonlaury@impu...>

I think this was discussed in Vol 11 of the AC, but I loaned my copy to a friend.

Re the "grab bar" method, I recall that Bob said to fill the tube with firecaulk
after all the wires were pulled. Now I see people are looking for the appropriate
size firesleeve for their grab-bar conduit.

How does one use the firesleeve and get an air tight seal?

Thanks,
John












________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 01:48:05 AM PST US
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grab-bar FW penetration

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8....>



> Re the "grab bar" method, I recall that Bob said to fill
> the tube with firecaulk after all the wires were pulled.
> Now I see people are looking for the appropriate size
> firesleeve for their grab-bar conduit.
>
> How does one use the firesleeve and get an air tight seal?


Hi John,

Here's how these guys recommend doing it.  I'm planning
on doing the same thing on mine.

http://www.epm-avcorp.com/fwalinst.html

Here is my USD 30.00 "custom" towel bar:

http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20060222102305941

Mickey

--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing












________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 04:27:03 AM PST US
From: Harley <harley@Agel...>
Subject: Re: [Possible SPAM] RE: AeroElectric-List: Honeywell....a short rant...

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Harley <harley@agel...>

Bruce, James and all...

Or, easier, use tinyURL (www.tinyurl.com) when you think your link may
be too long and might get wrapped..

For the Garmin website below:

http://tinyurl.com/hvfyx

Easy and free....

Harley


Bruce Gray wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glas...>
>
>It's been split in to 2 lines. Append htm to the end after the period, no
>spaces and hit enter.
>
>Bruce
>www.glasair.org
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of JAMES
>BOWEN
>Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:09 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matr...
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Honeywell....a short rant...
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "JAMES BOWEN"
><jabowenjr@hotm...>
>
>This link doesn't seem to work.
>
>
>  
>
>>From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@tele...>
>>To: aeroelectric-list@matr...
>>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Honeywell....a short rant...
>>Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:40:11 -0600
>>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@tele...>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I understand your feelings. While I can't help with Honeywell,
>>>      
>>>
>>here's
>>    
>>
>>>a site that can get you to the Garmin manuals.
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/Downloads/howtogetagarminmanual.
>>htm
>>
>>Thanks, Bruce, but you'll notice that most of those on the list are
>>pilot's guides and quickstart guides...not the install/interface manuals
>>that are needed to figure out the nitty-gritty of the item. Every little
>>bit
>>helps, tho......
>>
>>
>>Jim Baker
>>580.788.2779
>>'71 SV,  492TC
>>Elmore City, OK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>













________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 06:26:55 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grab-bar FW penetration

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 12:04 AM 2/22/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" <jonlaury@impu...>
>
>I think this was discussed in Vol 11 of the AC, but I loaned my copy to a
>friend.
>
>Re the "grab bar" method, I recall that Bob said to fill the tube with
>firecaulk after all the wires were pulled. Now I see people are looking
>for the appropriate size firesleeve for their grab-bar conduit.
>
>How does one use the firesleeve and get an air tight seal?



No sealant inside the firesleeve . . .

See:

http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html

        Bob . . .


      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
      < with experiment.                                      >
      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >













________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 06:58:39 AM PST US
From: "S Hamer" <s.hamer@veri...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question for Bob or ?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "S Hamer" <s.hamer@veri...>

Bob,

My voltmeter is powered by the -buss.  With just the e-bus switch on,  I'm
reading zero volts and zero amps.  The gauge still has power to it at that
time because the backlight is still on.

Steve


>
>     You lost me. Z-11 suggests you wire the voltmeter to the e-bus
>     and the voltages you cite agree with what I'd expect for voltage
>     readings with the alternator off.
>
>     The shunt is for the ammeter which never reads anything until
>     the alternator is running and taking battery recharge and system
>     loads. When you say "my gauge shows zero volts" are you meaning
>     to say "zero amps"?  The ammeter will be zero until the engine
>     is started and the alternator turned on.
>
>     Bob . . .
>
>
>      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
>      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
>      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
>      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
>      < with experiment.                                      >
>      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >
>
>
>














________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 06:58:39 AM PST US
From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloy...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Voltmeter location (was: Question for Bob or ?)

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloy...>

Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
>
> At 08:10 PM 2/21/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "S Hamer" <s.hamer@veri...>
>>
>> I've wired up my RV-6 per figure Z-11 (mostly) and when I turn on the
>> master switch, I'm seeing 11.5 volts on my voltage gauge.
>
>      Okay, that's about right for an e-bus driven voltmeter seeing hte main
>      bus through the normal voltage drop in the bus isolation diode.

The reason to have a voltmeter as opposed to a lo-volt/hi-volt indicator
is to show the actual voltage on the battery. You need to know the exact
voltage on the battery to ensure it is being fully charged without being
overcharged. It is also the indicator for remaining capacity in the
battery, i.e. when the battery is delivering system power and its
voltage drops to 10.5V (12V battery), the battery has delivered all its
energy and is now "dead".

I hold therefore that the proper place for a voltmeter is to read
battery voltage. You can measure battery voltage on the main bus when
the battery contactor is closed or you can measure battery voltage on
the e-bus when it is connected directly to the battery. Other than that,
the only place where you can always measure the battery voltage is right
at the battery.

If it were up to me, I would pick a digital voltmeter that had a sense
lead separate from the power lead (a three- or four-lead device -- does
anyone make one that is not part of an energy monitor?) to read battery
voltage. The drain for a device like this is so low as to allow it to
remain connected to the battery even when all other loads have been
removed. A drain of a couple of microamps through the sense lead is not
going to drain a battery faster than its self-discharge rate.

--
Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way
brian-yak at lloyd dot com          Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery












________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 07:38:56 AM PST US
From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn....>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Question for Bob or ?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn....>

Steve, it sounds like you have the voltage sense wire hooked up to the main
bus and the backlight wire hooked up to the e-bus.  Move your sense wire to
the e-bus and you should be fine.  

Do Not Archive
Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of S Hamer
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Question for Bob or ?

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "S Hamer" <s.hamer@veri...>

Bob,

My voltmeter is powered by the -buss.  With just the e-bus switch on,  I'm
reading zero volts and zero amps.  The gauge still has power to it at that
time because the backlight is still on.

Steve


>
>     You lost me. Z-11 suggests you wire the voltmeter to the e-bus
>     and the voltages you cite agree with what I'd expect for voltage
>     readings with the alternator off.
>
>     The shunt is for the ammeter which never reads anything until
>     the alternator is running and taking battery recharge and system
>     loads. When you say "my gauge shows zero volts" are you meaning
>     to say "zero amps"?  The ammeter will be zero until the engine
>     is started and the alternator turned on.
>
>     Bob . . .
>
>
>      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
>      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
>      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
>      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
>      < with experiment.                                      >
>      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >
>
>
>


























________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 08:18:25 AM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strange alternator behavior at Startup
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss....>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss....>

I have a 60amp internally regulated ND alternator with the alternator
contactor and crowbar protection on it.

In cold weather, say below 35degreesF, on initial start, I have no
charge. If I let her sit for a few minutes at 800rpm and worm up a
little, then give her some rpm up above 1100rpm, voltage and amp charge
slowly come up to proper level. Takes about 4 seconds for it to come up.
If I don't raise the rmp and just let her idle at 800, then after about
10 minutes of warming up, the same behavior happens where the voltage
slowly comes up. I do not get this behavior when its above 40 degrees F,
nor do I get this behavior if it has been run already.



Killing the alt field wire will not kill the alternator once she is
making current. Which I believe is proper behavior with this alternator.




Thoughts?

Thanks

Mike

RV-8 io-540

Do not archive
















________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 08:42:15 AM PST US
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Strange alternator behavior at Startup
From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.c...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.c...>

I have a thought....I want a ride in your airplane....:)

I have a little 40amp ND unit that exhibits similar behaviour. In my
case I do not have the voltage sensing wire connected and you have to
give it some RPM to get it charging...Once it is "switched on" though it
will continue to make current (and noise in the headset...yuk) no matter
what the RPM drops to.

Several other builders with the same setup report the same symptoms so
we all just live with it.

Frank
Zenair Zodiac

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:17 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Strange alternator behavior at Startup

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS
--> Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss....>

I have a 60amp internally regulated ND alternator with the alternator
contactor and crowbar protection on it.

In cold weather, say below 35degreesF, on initial start, I have no
charge. If I let her sit for a few minutes at 800rpm and worm up a
little, then give her some rpm up above 1100rpm, voltage and amp charge
slowly come up to proper level. Takes about 4 seconds for it to come up.
If I don't raise the rmp and just let her idle at 800, then after about
10 minutes of warming up, the same behavior happens where the voltage
slowly comes up. I do not get this behavior when its above 40 degrees F,
nor do I get this behavior if it has been run already.



Killing the alt field wire will not kill the alternator once she is
making current. Which I believe is proper behavior with this alternator.




Thoughts?

Thanks

Mike

RV-8 io-540

Do not archive





























________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 10:31:20 AM PST US
From: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umas...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Strange alternator behavior at Startup

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jon Goguen <jon.goguen@umas...>

These modern IR regulators are are "intelligent", the IQ depending on
the particular model.  LIke me, some need to warm up before it they
think well enough to work.  Many have a ramp function to bring the
output current up slowly at low rpm to prevent sudden engine loading
when alternator torque would be high, so the slow ramp up of the output
isn't surprising.  35 degrees seems pretty warm to be seeing such a
long warm-up delay, and it's possible that the regulator IC is
defective for low temp operation.  If you can trace the problem
directly to the regulator, say by warming it with a hair dryer before
starting on a cold day, you might consider replacing it, perhaps with
an external one that doesn't try to be quite so clever.  Another
possibility is that the belt slips in the cold when it's a little bit
stiff, and the the alternator rpm drops below the minimum at which the
regulator will turn on the output. Many regulators keep the output off
below a minimum rpm, to prevent loading the engine during startup. You
might not be getting above this threshold until the belt warms up and
grabs better.

Jon


Jon Goguen
jon.goguen@umas...
Central Massachusetts
Kitfox Series V Rotax 912S / N456JG (reserved)
Complete except for electrics and avionics

"Nothing worth knowing can be understood by the human mind"
--Woody Allen
On Feb 22, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS
> Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss....>
>
> I have a 60amp internally regulated ND alternator with the alternator
> contactor and crowbar protection on it.
>
> In cold weather, say below 35degreesF, on initial start, I have no
> charge. If I let her sit for a few minutes at 800rpm and worm up a
> little, then give her some rpm up above 1100rpm, voltage and amp charge
> slowly come up to proper level. Takes about 4 seconds for it to come
> up.
> If I don't raise the rmp and just let her idle at 800, then after about
> 10 minutes of warming up, the same behavior happens where the voltage
> slowly comes up. I do not get this behavior when its above 40 degrees
> F,
> nor do I get this behavior if it has been run already.
>
>
> Killing the alt field wire will not kill the alternator once she is
> making current. Which I believe is proper behavior with this
> alternator.
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike
>
> RV-8 io-540
>
> Do not archive
>
>













________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 11:36:56 AM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-14 FADEC Version Question
From: "dannylsmith" <dsmit132@bell...>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "dannylsmith" <dsmit132@bell...>


nuckollsr(at)cox.net wrote:
> At 11:13 AM 2/21/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry I didn't give you enough info Bob.
> >
> > It's a Mattituck IOF-360 with B&C starter and 60A alternator - no vacumn
> > or mechanical gyros. It's all electric - all glass panel. It will be IFR
> > with Garmin GMA-340 Audio Panel, GNS-480 GPS/Nav/Com, GTX-330 Xpondr
> > (Traffic), SL-40 Com, TruTrak DigiFlight II VSGS, TruTrak ADI, GRT 4000
> > EIS and two Horizon  I EFISs with XM Weather. Much of this equipment will
> > accept power from two sources. My backup to the Garmin equipment is the
> > TruTrak ADI and the EIS 4000 option of AS and Altitude. Plus the TruTrak
> > auto pilot.
> >
> > My plan is to use the Figure Z-14 FADEC and eliminate the aux alternator
> > and regulator.
> >
> >
>
>     Then what you REALLY need is Z13/8 with a second battery.
>
> You have me confused Bob. I have a FADEC so why would I use the Z-13/8 - all
electric airplane on a budget with P-Mags instead of the Z-14 FADEC? I just felt
that with a FADEC engine with two PC-680s that I don't need a second alternator.
> Danny
>
>     Bob . . .
>
>       < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
>       < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
>       < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
>       < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
>       < with experiment.                                      >
>       <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >


--------
Danny




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14166#14166


















________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 11:56:38 AM PST US
From: "John Burnaby" <jonlaury@impu...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Grab-bar FW penetration

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" <jonlaury@impu...>





      Subject:      Re: Grab-bar FW penetration
      From:      Robert L. Nuckolls, III (nuckollsr@cox....)
      Date:      Wed Feb 22 - 6:26 AM

>No sealant inside the firesleeve... So the last picture shows a piece of firesleeve
wrapped around the wire bundle and the hose clamp "seals" it to the bundle?
No sealant necessary?Next question: At Home Depot, there are 3-4 3M fire sealant/barrier
caulks to chose from. Some are intumescentand some are not. Which
one for FW's? I would guess that you don't want intumescent caulk expanding
between FW layers during a fire. Mine is a composite firewall using Rohacell
foam/glass sandwich for structure and Fiberfrax for fire protectionwith an aluminum
sheet over the Fiberfrax for a wipeable surface.ThanksJohn--> AeroElectric-List
message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 12:04 AM 2/22/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby" <jonlaury@impu...>
>
>I think this was discussed in Vol 11 of the AC, but I loaned my copy to a
>friend.
>
>Re the "grab bar" method, I recall that Bob said to fill the tube with
>firecaulk after all the wires were pulled. Now I see people are looking
>for the appropriate size firesleeve for their grab-bar conduit.
>
>How does one use the firesleeve and get an air tight seal?



No sealant inside the firesleeve . . .

See:

http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html

        Bob . . .














________________________________  Message 13  ____________________________________


Time: 12:13:06 PM PST US
From: AI Nut <ainut@hiwa...>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Temperature compensation, UMA CHT

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwa...>

Ok, maybe I'm being dense here, but here goes:
If the 594 is used, no further cold junction compensation is necessary
from the TC side is necessary.  If the UMA instrument needs it, then I
suggest dropping it.  Use a simple microprocessor (about $1) and an LED
display ($40?) instead.  Some of the micros have an LED display driver
already built-in, IIRC.  Check out Freescale's website.

If he's married to the UMA, then enjoy the exercises 8-).

David M.


Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
>
> At 08:40 AM 2/21/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwa...>
>>
>>The AD594 already has all that built in.  The output from the 594 is
>>0-5vdc.  The 594 also helps linearize the output curve from the TC.
>>
>>David M.
>
>
>   Yes, that's what we're discussing. He wants to craft a compensated
>   signal conditioner to remove some of the uncertainty of the
>   UMA gages that have no cold-junction compensation. I need to know
>   the base sensitivity numbers for his instruments before I can calculate
>   the output characteristics of the signal conditioner.
>
>    Bob  . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>  
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>












________________________________  Message 14  ____________________________________


Time: 02:00:33 PM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Splicing strobe wires
From: "Jekyll" <rcitjh@aol....>

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jekyll" <rcitjh@aol....>

When building my wings, I installed the strobe wires in a conduit and cut them
off, leaving only a 2 foot length on the root end. That was before I started learning
about wiring. Now I have to learn how to connect my installation. I'm
using the Whelen system 6 in an RV-7A (3-wire shielded cable, single power supply.)

a. Can I splice the cables to extend them to the power supply? If I do, do I treat
the shields as fourth wires and splice those also? If I do this, how do I
splice the shield (solder or crimp)?

b. Do I install a molex with 4 pins, 1 for the shield, at the root bulkhead? (I
guess this was my original concept when I cut the wires)

c. Should I replace the wires so I have an unbroken run to the power supply? I
can probably pull a replacement through if need be.

I'm concerned about RMI from the cable. Whelen says to ground the shield only at
the power supply.

Jekyll




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14201#14201


















________________________________  Message 15  ____________________________________


Time: 03:19:17 PM PST US
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glas...>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Grab-bar FW penetration

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce@glas...>

John,

3M (CP-25) caulk is used around the firewall because the foam contracts when
heated so you want to use an intumescent calk here. Around the fire sleeve I
would not expect any shrinkage so a non intumescent calk would be my choice.
You might look at RTV-88.

Bruce
www.glasair.org


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matr...] On Behalf Of John
Burnaby
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:53 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Grab-bar FW penetration


--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby"
<jonlaury@impu...>





      Subject:      Re: Grab-bar FW penetration
      From:      Robert L. Nuckolls, III (nuckollsr@cox....)
      Date:      Wed Feb 22 - 6:26 AM

>No sealant inside the firesleeve... So the last picture shows a piece of
firesleeve wrapped around the wire bundle and the hose clamp "seals" it to
the bundle? No sealant necessary?Next question: At Home Depot, there are 3-4
3M fire sealant/barrier caulks to chose from. Some are intumescentand some
are not. Which one for FW's? I would guess that you don't want intumescent
caulk expanding between FW layers during a fire. Mine is a composite
firewall using Rohacell foam/glass sandwich for structure and Fiberfrax for
fire protectionwith an aluminum sheet over the Fiberfrax for a wipeable
surface.ThanksJohn--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L.
Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 12:04 AM 2/22/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Burnaby"
<jonlaury@impu...>
>
>I think this was discussed in Vol 11 of the AC, but I loaned my copy to a
>friend.
>
>Re the "grab bar" method, I recall that Bob said to fill the tube with
>firecaulk after all the wires were pulled. Now I see people are looking
>for the appropriate size firesleeve for their grab-bar conduit.
>
>How does one use the firesleeve and get an air tight seal?



No sealant inside the firesleeve . . .

See:

http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html

        Bob . . .



























________________________________  Message 16  ____________________________________


Time: 06:20:41 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splicing strobe wires

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>

At 01:57 PM 2/22/2006 -0800, you wrote:

>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jekyll" <rcitjh@aol....>
>
>When building my wings, I installed the strobe wires in a conduit and cut
>them off, leaving only a 2 foot length on the root end. That was before I
>started learning about wiring. Now I have to learn how to connect my
>installation. I'm using the Whelen system 6 in an RV-7A (3-wire shielded
>cable, single power supply.)
>
>a. Can I splice the cables to extend them to the power supply?

    Yes


>  If I do, do I treat the shields as fourth wires and splice those also?

    Yes

>  If I do this, how do I splice the shield (solder or crimp)?

    Your choice.


>b. Do I install a molex with 4 pins, 1 for the shield, at the root bulkhead?

    yes

>  (I guess this was my original concept when I cut the wires)

    no problem if you have no heartburn over the connector/


>c. Should I replace the wires so I have an unbroken run to the power supply?

   no

>  I can probably pull a replacement through if need be.

   Not necessary


>I'm concerned about RMI from the cable. Whelen says to ground the shield
>only at the power supply.

   That's correct. Shielding breaks ELECTROSTATIC coupling of noise
   and the few inches of exposed wiring at the connector location is
   a microscopic risk. Open shields are not "leaks in the dam where
   torrents of noise pour out."

   Bob . . .


      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
      < with experiment.                                      >
      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >













________________________________  Message 17  ____________________________________


Time: 06:20:41 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Grab-bar FW penetration

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox....>


>
> >No sealant inside the firesleeve... So the last picture shows a piece of
> firesleeve wrapped around the wire bundle and the hose clamp "seals" it
> to the bundle?

    correct

>No sealant necessary?

    that's what the 'big' guys do . . .

>Next question: At Home Depot, there are 3-4 3M fire sealant/barrier caulks
>to chose from. Some are intumescentand some are not. Which one for FW's? I
>would guess that you don't want intumescent caulk expanding between FW
>layers during a fire. Mine is a composite firewall using Rohacell
>foam/glass sandwich for structure and Fiberfrax for fire protectionwith an
>aluminum sheet over the Fiberfrax for a wipeable surface.

   I've not researched their range of products and I'd
   have to run them by my power plant guys at RAC. I think
   others on the list have made suggestions about this . . .


        Bob . . .


      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >
      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >
      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >
      < with experiment.                                      >
      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >













________________________________  Message 18  ____________________________________


Time: 06:53:45 PM PST US
From: Joemotis@aol....
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Splicing strobe wires

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joemotis@aol....

Thank you Bob, I have always wondered how significant the unsheilded   molex
was in noise.
And as I guessed and you pointed out, it's nada.
Joe
do not archive













________________________________  Message 19  ____________________________________


Time: 09:07:29 PM PST US
From: Charlie Brame <chasb@satx...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: carrier only problem

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Brame <chasb@satx...>

Problem solved. Several guys responded, on the list and back channel.
Thanks for all the feed back. It helped with the trouble shooting.

The problem was with the mic audio line. A shielded wire was soldered to
ground and the soldering managed to short out the audio feed. We did a
proper soldering job and the set now works like it was supposed to.

Charlie Brame
San Antonio

------------------------------------------------

> Time: 03:06:19 PM PST US
> From: Charlie Brame <chasb@satx...>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Carrier Only Problem
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie Brame <chasb@satx...>
>
> A friend is having radio problems with a new intercom/radio installation.
>
> His bird is equipped with a intercom which appears to work as
> advertised. Intercom between cockpits is okay. The mic break level is
> easily adjustable using the intercom squelch, and the intercom volume is
> adjustable. The comm radio receives very well on all channels. However,
> the radio only sends a carrier - no voice, when attempting to transmit.
> The carrier is strong and can be heard on a handheld over a half mile
> away, but no hint of any voice.
>
> We have eliminated the headset and the intercom, we think. We have
> traced mic wires and all appear to be as they should be. The PTT circuit
> is apparently working as a carrier is transmitted. Why no voice?
>
> Any suggestions as to where to continue trouble shooting would be appreciated.
>
> Charlie Brame
> San Antonio
>












________________________________  Message 20  ____________________________________


Time: 10:20:26 PM PST US
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@veri...>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Transponder/ RS-232

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@veri...>

Question on the Gray Code connection to the transponder.  I have an Apollo
(UPS AT-now Garmin) SL70 transponder and it has a "D4" Gray code input.  I
plan to use a Dynon EFIS D10 (not a D10-A) as my encoder but it does not
have a "D4" Gray code output.  What should I do with this connection at the
Transponder end?  Can I just leave it floating, do I need to ground it or
what? Don't see anything in the manual about this.

I also plan to connect my full UPS AT radio stack together at their
respective RS-232 Tx/Rx I/O interfaces.  My GPS/COM manual says to use a
three conductor shielded cable for two way RS-232 communication (Tx and RX)
and two conductor shielded for one way communication (Tx only or Rx only).
What is confusing to me though is their wiring diagram, it shows two wires
PLUS a shield connection to the transponder (one way comm). One wire is
connected to RS-232 Rx, another wire to a specific ground pin at the
connector AND....a shield connection to the mounting frame of the GPS/COM.
First, I'm a little confused about what UPS AT is saying...since the
Transponder will only require one way communication then according to the
text, I only need a TWO conductor shielded cable!  But from the wiring
diagram, it looks like I need two conductors PLUS A SHIELD!!!  

Does that mean I need something like a shielded twisted pair for this
connection, or triax....or what?  

Where would I obtain shielded twisted pair Tefzel wire for this purpose?
Thanks.


Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A  N197DM
Finishing Autocad and stripping wires.





















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