--- In bible_prophecy-l@yaho..., "Ken" <kensch888@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
>  
>
> >In Joel 2 the alarm sounded by the trumpet is to announce the coming of an
> invading army. You can't separate the alarm from what they are alarmed
> about.
>
>  
>
> Ok, I'll buy that. I was just asking if you had any thoughts about another
> interpretation besides war.


Ken,

There are of course other uses for trumpet besides war in scripture, such as in festivals, but the seven trumpets seem to focus on warfare, and since trumpets are used in "many" other passages in connection with warfare it's obvious that the word trumpet was picked for that list of seven because of it's association with warfare.

Daniel




>
>  
>
> How about:
>
> Numbers 10
>
> 1 Kings 1:34,39,41
>
> Psalm 47, 81, 150
>
> Isaiah 18
>
>  
>
> YBIC,
>
> Ken
>
>  
>
>  
>
> From: bible_prophecy-l@yaho...
> [mailto:bible_prophecy-l@yaho...] On Behalf Of Daniel
> Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2011 4:01 PM
> To: bible_prophecy-l@yaho...
> Subject: [bible_prophecy-l] Re: Numbers 9
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
>
> --- In bible_prophecy-l@yaho...
> <mailto:bible_prophecy-l%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ken" <kensch888@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Daniel,
> >
> >
> >
> > You are correct, if the trumpets are a call to war or seven wars. What
> > would your interpretation be if they are not a call to war, but instead to
> > sound an alarm like in Joel?
> >
> >
> >
> > YBIC,
> >
> > Ken
>
> Ken,
>
> In Joel 2 the alarm sounded by the trumpet is to announce the coming of an
> invading army. You can't separate the alarm from what they are alarmed
> about.
>
> Also, I don't think the trumpets should be termed a call to war, but rather
> trumpet is simply used to symbolize warfare, and each trumpet contains
> elements of warfare. I wouldn't call them seven wars either since they could
> be referring to aspects of the same war, in particular the first four
> trumpets could be aspects of a global nuclear exchange, which would all be
> the same war.
>
> The next two trumpets show a more conventional war, which I believe the
> descriptions of the 5th trumpet show helicopters and the 6th trumpet shows
> tanks.
>
> The 7th trumpet shows Christ returning at the beginning of his millennial
> reign and says the nations were angry and the Lord's wrath is come. That's
> when Christ brings about the destruction of the nations attacking Israel.
> So, it seems all seven trumpets are describing warfare in some fashion, and
> the word trumpet is the appropriate symbol for that list of seven since that
> word appears in many scriptures associated with warfare.
>
> Regarding the 7th trumpet, it seems the Lord, at least in part, uses human
> agencies to destroy the armies invading Israel, and it's speculated that
> Israel might even use it's nuclear arsenal to defeat this invading army.
>
> The following verse, which is showing events on the day of the Lord after
> Christ's return, shows the flesh consumed off of men before they even have
> time to fall.
>
> Zech. 14:12, "And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all
> the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume
> away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in
> their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth."
>
> In a nuclear blast the heat wave initially travels faster than the shock
> wave, and people will be incinerated before the explosive wind follows. The
> flesh being consumed off off men while they stand on their feet describes
> what the initial heat wave does, whose temperature is hotter than the
> surface of the sun.
>
> As Zech. 14 continues we read this, "And Judah also shall fight at
> Jerusalem. . ." (v.14). This is after Christ returns; so, it is obviious
> that the Lord is using human agencies to some extent to defeat these armies
> invading Israel. It's just like in OT times when the Lord fought for Israel
> he made them victorious in battle.
>
> I answered this question yesterday, but it never appeared and must have
> gotten lost in cyberspace.
>
> Daniel
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > From: bible_prophecy-l@yaho...
> <mailto:bible_prophecy-l%40yahoogroups.com>
> > [mailto:bible_prophecy-l@yaho...
> <mailto:bible_prophecy-l%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Daniel
> > Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 11:45 PM
> > To: bible_prophecy-l@yaho...
> <mailto:bible_prophecy-l%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [bible_prophecy-l] Re: Numbers 9
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In bible_prophecy-l@yaho...
> <mailto:bible_prophecy-l%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:bible_prophecy-l%40yahoogroups.com> , Kyrie Eleison
> > <gypsyk719_99@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thank you Daniel, it was deep and insightful. A person has gotta know
> the
> > > OT Prophetic book before getting into Revelation. Since it draws so much
> > > from it.
> >
> > Barbara,
> >
> > That's correct. Many of the symbols used in the NT draw heavily on
> symbolism
> > found in the OT, such as the parable of the fig tree is interpreted in
> light
> > of Jeremiah using figs to represent the Jews return to their land.
> Jeremiah
> > 24 contains a prophecy of the Jews, which are symbolized as figs, going
> into
> > the Babylonian captivity and then returning. That's why people view the
> > parable of the fig tree in Luke 21 as a prophecy of the Jews return. Luke
> 21
> > tells us that the same generation that sees the Jews return will see the
> > return of Christ.
> >
> > Of course then people argue over which date best reflects that return:
> 1948
> > or 1967. Due to other prophecies that focus on this return, like Isaiah 51
> > and Luke 21:24, it seems to point to Israel's return to Jerusalem which
> > didn't happen until 1967.
> >
> > You wrote:
> >
> > > Â
> > > About wormwood. Is it so that it is the Russian name for a mountain and
> it
> > had
> > > to do with Chernobyl?
> >
> > ...........
> >
> > What's a bit ironic about that is Chernobyl involved radiation
> > contamination, and I believe the waters being made bitter in the 3rd
> trumpet
> > relates to radiation contamination. The first two trumpets show large
> swaths
> > of the Earth burned with fire which I believe could be nuclear war.
> >
> > In the OT trumpets are used in connection with warfare in many passages.
> > Trumpets were used to warn of an approaching enemy, "Blow ye the trumpet
> in
> > Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain. . . (Joel 2:1). Jer 4:19, ".
> .
> > . the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war." Even the walls of Jericho
> > fell at the sounding of a trumpet.
> >
> > I believe the seven trumpets show warfare. I think that's why John called
> > them trumpets, because they all involve aspects of war. The two most
> common
> > views for the first two trumpets, which shows one third of the Earth's
> land
> > surface, and one third of the world's ships destroyed by fire, is either
> an
> > asteroid hits the Earth or it's showing nuclear war. If the trumpets are
> > meant to represent warfare, the only weapon in man's arsenal that could
> burn
> > such a large swath of the Earth is nuclear weapons.
> >
> > The fourth trumpet shows the lights of the sun, moon, and stars darkened
> by
> > one third. Scientist predict that within a month after a nuclear exchange
> > that the debris from the explosions and the burning cities will shroud the
> > whole planet in smoke. Obviously the fires of the first two trumpets leads
> > to the sky being darkened by smoke in the fourth trumpet. The third
> trumpet
> > speaks of one third of the world's fresh water being made bitter, and many
> > people dying from that water. I think what is killing them is radiation
> > contamination.
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> > > Â
> > > luv,barbara
> > >
> > > Â
> > > Â
> > >
> > >
> > > >________________________________
> > > >From: Daniel <jayjeti@>
> > > >To: bible_prophecy-l@yaho...
> <mailto:bible_prophecy-l%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:bible_prophecy-l%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Sent: Monday, October 17, 2011 2:30 PM
> > > >Subject: [bible_prophecy-l] Re: Numbers 9
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Â
> > > >Barbara,
> > > >
> > > >It's funny you asked that because I teach a Bible study on Saturdays,
> we
> > are doing the Gospel of John, and we covered the verse in John 3 this past
> > Saturday which states, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the
> > wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up."
> > > >
> > > >During the Hebrews wanderings in the wilderness they were in an area
> with
> > many poisonous snakes, and so God instructed Moses to fashion a bronze
> > serpent and put it up on a pole, and if someone was bitten by a snake all
> > they had to do was look at the bronze serpent and they would be healed.
> > > >
> > > >We look to Christ who hung on the cross for our delieverance. The
> > similarity is the bronze snake on the pole delievered them physically, and
> > Christ on the cross delievers us spiritually. The typology employed is one
> > of deliverance. It's like Moses is viewed as a type of Christ because he
> > delivered his people from bondage.
> > > >
> > > >I understand the misgiving about a snake on a pole being used to
> > symbolize Christ on the cross since in some scriptures the serpent is used
> > as a symbol for the devil. But the Bible sometimes uses the same item to
> > symbolize different things, like the woman of Rev. 12:1 symbolizes Israel
> > and the woman of Rev. 17:18 symbolizes the world capital city where the
> > beast reigns from.
> > > >
> > > >Although overall, symbols are often consistent, and if you want to
> > interpret how a symbol is being used you often only need to see how that
> > word was used in a symbolic sense in other scriptures. Case in point is
> the
> > star that is called wormwood in the third trumpet of Revelation 8, where
> it
> > falls on the fresh waters and says the waters became wormwood, and many
> > people died because the waters because they were made bitter.
> > > >
> > > >If you look at wormwood's seven prior occurances in scripture, it is
> used
> > in all those passages to symbolize bitter calamities befalling people,
> like
> > Proverbs 5:4, "But her end is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a twoedged
> > sword." Wormwood is a very bitter tasting herb, and even in extra-biblical
> > literature we find it was commonly used in ancient times to represent
> bitter
> > calamities (disasters).
> > > >
> > > >Apocalyptic literature like Revelation is highly symbolic, and when you
> > start reading that book strictly literal you are due to make a lot of
> > errors. I don't believe the star that falls is literally made from the
> plant
> > wormwood, nor do I think the waters literally turn into that plant either,
> > but when it says the waters were made bitter that's referring to a
> horrible
> > bitter calamity that occurs.
> > > >
> > > >I say this because sometimes people read apocalypitc literature too
> > literally and don't investigate it's possible figurative meanings. Symbols
> > will have some commonality to what they represent, and bitterness is even
> > used in our culture for some travesty, like we use the phrase of taking a
> > bitter pill to represent some hardship. The commonality shared between the
> > cross and the snake on the pole is people who looked to either one found
> > deliverance.
> > > >
> > > >Daniel
> > > >
> > > >--- In bible_prophecy-l@yaho...
> <mailto:bible_prophecy-l%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <mailto:bible_prophecy-l%40yahoogroups.com> , Kyrie Eleison
> <gypsyk719_99@>
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I am embarrassed to ask the Preacher this. Since there is a Bible
> class
> > before
> > > >> the service. I cant attend it, since I have to hide around trees to
> > make sure
> > > >> I am not followed. Or at least wait till the road feels clear.
> > > >> Â
> > > >> Now, the Israelites had to look upon a serpeant in a pole. and my
> > preacher
> > > >> said that it represented the future ransom sacrifice of Jesus.
> Numbers
> > 21
> > > >> Â
> > > >> my question is, why is Jesus being represented by a snake? Isn't that
> > Satan's
> > > >> symbol?
> > > >> Â
> > > >> luv,barbara
> > > >>
> > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > When I survey the wondrous cross
> > > On which the Prince of glory died,
> > > My richest gain I count but loss,
> > > And pour contempt on all my pride.
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>