I'm glad. I do like it in this format, it's a lot less noise.

Also, don't go Fletch, we'll miss you. :(

On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 12:21 AM, Fletcher Dunn <fletcherd@valv...
> wrote:

> There's no pressure from anywhere to close this mailing list.
>
> Since most people seem to be happy with the list in its current form, it
> looks like it's highly unlikely that we would be able to find another
> alternative that offers compelling enough advantages to make it worth our
> while to migrate.
>
> Making it easier to search the archives seems like something simple we
> could look into.
>
> I'll see you guys in another two years when the next Valve noob brings up
> this topic again. :)
>
> Cheers,
> Fletch
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hlds_linux-bounces@list... [mailto:
> hlds_linux-bounces@list...] On Behalf Of ics
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 10:03 PM
> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Forum vs. email list
>
> I prefer mailing list. Just because it's easy to use while reading
> regular e-mail and you can just pick a message to read easily, delete
> immediately the rest that you don't need. On forum, you have to browse
> around on many threads and it's very time consuming. I also hate the
> SPUF style where you just get post to your mail that happened after your
> reply and the messages after that are ignored untill i visit the forum
> again. Forums might be clean first but full of dirt later. Too many
> immature people there, way less here on this list.
>
> People go crazy on forums whenever someone from Valve replies, they want
> to contribute. I'ts a mess there. Benefit on forums is the the easier
> search and messages browsing if you prefer reading all once a week and
> have time to go through all the messages. The count of messages that
> should not be posted would rise high too. It would be harder to find the
> thing you are looking for. It's good for historians. How many people
> browse old messages anyway and why? To check something or find answer?
> Isn't wiki for the answers better or some sort of section "how to run a
> server for dummies".
>
> The recent change where there's as much as ~10 people been around from
> Valve within a month is something i've never seen before. I thought the
> list would live long and the latter closing notice would have been
> proved wrong but i guess there is pressure to close the list down. This
> is way more convinient than forums. Please do not close this down.
>
> -ics
>
>
> 25.10.2011 7:28, Andrew kirjoitti:
> > What about adding some kind of easy searching to the mailing list
> > archives? That seems to be only commonly brought up minus to keeping
> > this format.
> >
> > I am able to access them (the archives) with my login, but the
> > standard listings by month and downloadable gzip'ed archives makes
> > searching nontrivial. Improving that would be a big +
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 11:24 PM, m33crob<admin@m33c...>  wrote:
> >> I too would prefer to keep the mailing list. If a forum materializes out
> of
> >> this conversation, I would be interested in becoming a moderator. I'm
> >> already super active in the Steam Forums and you guys may or may not
> have
> >> noticed that I update the Steam Forums server sections almost everyday.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:15 PM, Jesse Molina<jesse@open...>
>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> I prefer mailing lists, which is why I am here.  Discussion and replies
> are
> >>> below:
> >>>
> >>> I prefer mailing lists because there is a small technical barrier to
> entry.
> >>>   Chances are that you had to use a search engine to find it, which
> means you
> >>> probably already tried to find what you were looking for via that
> search
> >>> engine and failed.  Many noobs don't even know what a mailman list is,
> and
> >>> that's good.  I want to talk to other people who can actually help me.
>  This
> >>> mailing list is not primarily for a social experience.  For most
> forums, a
> >>> significant amount of code is dedicated to smileys, avatars,
> signatures,
> >>> friends/foes, etc, because they need the social experience, because
> they are
> >>> ad-revenue driven.  The amount of whitespace on web forums, compared to
> >>> email, is terrible.
> >>>
> >>> Here's a thought:  The quality of the discussion is primarily impacted
> by
> >>> how those with authoritative knowledge (Valve employees and pros)
> engage in
> >>> the discussion.  If Valve employees were more inclined to participate
> in
> >>> discussion on a web forum, I'd go web forum.  I would not cry too hard
> if
> >>> this one mailing list went away.  It's just games.
> >>>
> >>> About the archives:  Why are they password protected, and why has my
> >>> password never ever worked?  From day one, the password that came in my
> >>> welcome email didn't work and I never tried again.  I have never ever
> >>> searched the archives because I can't.
> >>>
> >>> It is nice to have a single point of discussion for issues, as opposed
> to
> >>> many different sites and applications.  As an example, I am an aquarium
> >>> hobbyist, and I often visit five different web forums because each has
> some
> >>> specialty, or the community is fractured up.  This is annoying.  This
> is
> >>> also why I don't check forums.srcds.com but once in a great while.
> >>>
> >>> I've never seen a duel-pane message board reader that worked well.  I
> see
> >>> browsing message boards as messy business.  I use mutt and Seamonkey as
> my
> >>> mail clients, depending on where I'm at.
> >>>
> >>> I use my android phone to check email.  Checking a web forum would be
> >>> significantly more difficult.  I would not do it, at all.  I check
> email,
> >>> rss, and podcasts with my phone.  Web forums are iPhone/Android
> unfriendly.
> >>>   My Android client is k9mail.
> >>>
> >>> Some people brought up the issue of email spam because they fear giving
> out
> >>> the mail address.  Use a spam filter.  I don't get spam because I have
> my
> >>> own server with Spamassassin running.  If you are using a free mail
> >>> provider, you get what you pay for (adverts).  Business and
> professionals
> >>> use email.  I wish I had more pleasant advice to give out, but that's
> the
> >>> truth.
> >>>
> >>> What about a forum that sends out email update announcements?  I don't
> use
> >>> those myself, with a very few exceptions of where I really must. This
> is
> >>> mostly because most of those forums have a very low signal to noise
> ratio.
> >>>   I only click on a very few threads.  In other words, my participation
> level
> >>> is lower with web forums.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Replies:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Kigen wrote:
> >>>> Honestly, I don't like getting my inbox spammed with these messages.
> >>> That is what mail rules/filters are for.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> DarthNinja wrote:
> >>>> I don't like the idea of forums, because it's a passive stream of
> data.
> >>>> People have to visit to check up on topics.
> >>>> People are just a lot less likely to reply to things in a forum
> >>> environment.
> >>>
> >>> I agree.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> msleeper wrote:
> >>>> Valve, I'm sorry, but your forum population is about as dumb as
> >>>> facepunch, and I hope you realize it.
> >>> Harsh, but true.
> >>>
> >>> This is why I signed up for the mailing list.  I am pro network
> >>> engineer/unix sysadmin, but I didn't know anything about srcds servers
> a
> >>> year ago.  I needed a place where I could come to for technical help on
> >>> server administration related tasks.  I did not come to discuss in-game
> >>> content issues at all -- such issues are good for the main forums.
> >>>
> >>> That being said, let's face it:  More than half of the people on this
> >>> (linux) mailing list doesn't know what a pipe, |, does on the bash
> command
> >>> line.  Their preferred editor is the pico clone nano.  Just gotta put
> up
> >>> with it... or maybe even help a noob once in awhile.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Steffen Schmolinske wrote:
> >>>> I'd like to have a forum just for the sake of proper archives&  search
> >>>> functions.
> >>> Valve is, right now, actively stopping you from having this.  Ask them
> why
> >>> they are doing that.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ryan Stecker wrote:
> >>>> I would love a forum. I don't think the mailing list provides any
> decent
> >>>> method of searching,
> >>> Again, Valve is stopping you from having this.  Ask them why they are
> doing
> >>> that.  Why are they taking away from you something that you would
> otherwise
> >>> have?  They have deliberately password protected the archives and
> prevent
> >>> search engines from searching them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> msleeper wrote:
> >>>> the main reason the list fails
> >>>> (and moving SPUF would only make it worse) is that most people post
> >>>> crap nobody needs to hear or wants to read and isn't useful.
> >>>> ...
> >>>> And guess what - we don't care about or need to hear about you telling
> >>>> us that. Shut up, keep your stupid opinions to yourselves, and maybe
> >>>> there wouldn't be a "problem" in the first place.
> >>> Jesse Porter wrote:
> >>>> The
> >>>> farther away from server maintenance and updates the discussion get,
> the
> >>>> less interest I have (recent discussion on classes, etc).
> >>> This is just the classic pros vs noobs thing.  Reference ESR's Asking
> Smart
> >>> Questions, which most have not read, or even heard of.
> >>>
> >>> Because this mailing list involves video games, it has a youth and
> >>> stupid-noob factor -- not to be mistaken as the same issue.  I don't
> think
> >>> that can be helped.  A FAQ to throw at them every time they failed to
> google
> >>> it might help.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> # Jesse Molina
> >>> # Mail = jesse@open...
> >>> # Page = page-jesse@open...
> >>> # Cell = 1.602.323.7608
> >>> # Web  = http://www.opendreams.net/**jesse/<
> http://www.opendreams.net/jesse/>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________**_________________
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> >>> please visit:
> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/**mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux<
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux>
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> please visit:
> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
> >>
>
>
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