Going off what Jeff Sugar just said in the thread that started this,
and reiterating what I said earlier - the main reason the list fails
(and moving SPUF would only make it worse) is that most people post
crap nobody needs to hear or wants to read and isn't useful. That's
great that some of you don't like quickplay or don't use quickplay -
telling us on the list is helpful to no one and wastes space. You can
replace "quickplay" with just about anything, and 10 times out of 10
it is brought up, there is always people posting about how they don't
use it, don't care about it, or don't need it.
And guess what - we don't care about or need to hear about you telling
us that. Shut up, keep your stupid opinions to yourselves, and maybe
there wouldn't be a "problem" in the first place.
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Kyle Sanderson <kyle.leet@gmai...> wrote:
> What a great idea. Ditching the mailing list and replacing it with a forum
> would be a complete mistake in my opinion. Then again, it's just my opinion.
> Removing inactive members would be kind of rough, the SnR on the lists would
> drop significantly.
> On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 6:25 PM, John Schoenick <Nephyrin@doub...>wrote:
>> On 10/24/2011 05:42 PM, Fletcher Dunn wrote:
>>> What if you got an email when there was a new post? (That's what I meant
>>> by "push notification".)
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: hlds_linux-bounces@list.**valvesoftware.com<hlds_linux-bounces@list...>[mailto:
>>> On Behalf Of Ronny Schedel
>>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 5:41 PM
>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Forum vs. email list
>>> Never ever change this to a forum. I prefer to have one place to check
>>> important things, so I have added several mailing lists. Otherwise I had
>>> check every forum on the planet to get the informations, that's back to
>>> stone age.
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> From: Fletcher Dunn
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 8:34 AM
>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list ;
>>> hlds@list... >>> Subject: [hlds_linux] Forum vs. email list
>>> I am honestly astounded by the amount of people who complain when
>>>> people ask for help on help forums or mailing lists. Not everyone
>>>> signs up and instantly reads everything, goes through all the
>>>> archives, or spends hours researching.
>>> I'd like to use this comment as a springboard for a discussion about the
>>> format of this list.
>>> I hear that a few years ago the idea of migrating the email list to a
>>> was kicked around. However, at the time (is this still true today?) the
>>> users of the list didn't like the idea. it is my understanding that most
>>> server admins prefer:
>>> 1.) Receiving push notifications.
>>> 2.) Viewing the list in their email client
>>> #1 seems like a really compelling advantage (especially for
>>> while #2 seems like a personal preference, and many people have the
>>> A forum has several compelling advantages:
>>> 1.) Easier to search and find answers to previously asked questions
>>> 2.) Easier to follow a thread of conversation. (I personally find any
>>> distribution list to become unreadable pretty much instantly, with all the
>>> >>>>'s and broken line breaks that everybody's mail clients and put
>>> 3.) Easier to modify your post if you notice a mistake or want to clarify
>>> something, rather than making a new post.
>>> 4.) Easier to delete or move posts if they are spam, rude, inappropriate,
>>> belong in the general TF2 SPUF forum, etc.
>>> 5.) Easier to ignore an entire thread that you are not interested in.
>>> Could there be some sort of forum + push notification that would satisfy
>>> what everybody wants? This list exists to serve you guys, so I'm curious
>>> what everything thinks. I *believe* most of the guys would find a forum
>>> format (perhaps with some push notification) more convenient.
>>> It would be good to get some opinions about how people prefer to consume
>>> information on this list.
>>> Please chime in.
>>> Your humble servant,
>>> - Fletch
>> The problem with forums vs a mailing list is the barrier to entry. If the
>> admin discussion occurred on SPUF, any bored SPUF user could wander in and
>> 'contribute' to threads. For a mailing list you must know it exists, sign
>> up, and then wait to get the relevant emails and converse that way. I know
>> its not exactly a experts-only thing. But, especially with a gamer community
>> that necessarily has its fair share of teenagers and the like, keeping the
>> list 'out of the way' definitely cuts way down on the noise, and makes it
>> much more possible for valve employees to comment and get feedback that
>> would be lost otherwise.
>> Another thing to consider is the method of delivery - with hlds the emails
>> come into a folder in our inboxes, and valve's inboxes. People, even off the
>> list, can be CC'd directly on relevant threads. With a forum, everyone would
>> need to actively go check it every day - something they might not be
>> inclined to otherwise do - and PMing valve employees on the forums with "Hey
>> look at this thread!" is not a good solution.
>> What really needs to be done is to modify mailman server a little bit to
>> register users by steam-account-that-owns-a-game so they can more easily
>> kick people off the list that are not contributing. Treat it like a
>> privilege, rather than a right, and rather aggressively remove people who
>> are on here to do things that arn't helpful discussion of server moderation.
>> - Neph
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