Hi Tuukka,

Well that is an interesting proposition.  Is this only for "Artists".
How is an "Artist" defined in Finland?  What about the rest of the
people who do not have artistic talents?  Only work when you want to.
Doesn't this affect production in a factory?  Can you choose anywhere
where you want to work?  How do you apply to the factory?

You call this a basic income guarantee.  How is the salary set, do you
have a minimum wage?  Does everybody get the same salary despite an
experience difference, or is the artist paid less.

I am familiar with the school system in Finland.  Teachers are
required to have at least a Master's degree, and I believe they get
paid more, "relative" (heh, heh) than the US, and have higher
standing.  I like that system.  If we stop spending State money on
stupid stuff, we could do this to.  But, here in the US we do not like
to invest in our children.  California is currently being held for
ransom by our governor.  If we do not pass his increase in income tax
and sales tax bill, he said he would take money away from the school
system!  There is plenty of money in California, we just spend a lot
of money on illegal immigration and all their needs.

Speaking of which, in Finland I do not believe you have to deal with
at least two languages.  Your population is homogenious for the most
part (lots of blond people).  What is the GDP of Finland, and its
growth rate?  What kind of factories do people (such as yourself) work
in?

If I could just work whenever I wanted, I would take lots of
vacations.  Is that what you do?  Sounds like a good life to me.  Only
being responsible to oneself, not to society.

Cheers,
mark


On 1/20/12, Tuukka Virtaperko <mail@tuuk...> wrote:
> Mark, Horse
>
> Mark to Horse:
>
>>  I understand your position as a musician.
>
>
> Tuukka:
>
> I'm also an artist. But I favor basic income guarantee with the absence of
> welfare traps. This entails that if a person, for example, needs a guitar
> and a few gadgets, he can go work into a factory for a few months. Then he's
> free to quit and make the songs he wants. This is enough for a lot of
> activity. Movies and big production will of course require more funding.
>
> Thing is, I don't think it makes any sense whatsoever to expect an artist to
> make a living with his art. It's allowed, sure, but that's it. I don't think
> artists should be pressured to sell out. It makes them attain a slave
> mentality in which their purpose is to please the masses instead of really
> giving people something to think about, that is, creating actually
> ampliative mental input.
>
> This kind of thinking is not very American, but it has a track record of
> working. When Americans wonder, why Finland has such high scores in PISA,
> people don't remember to mention that we don't have private schools here.
> It's essential, but Americans would prefer not to hear about it, because
> generally, it does not suit their habits of thinking how things ought to be.
> The American way of thinking seems to be that people ought to value
> education as a commercial resource instead of viewing information and
> knowledge as assets that are not subordinate to commercial matters. True,
> Pirsig is an exception. He does view this thing like Finns and the Nordic
> countries in generally do, and to be sure, he has ancestry in Sweden.
>
> Horse, what kind of music do you make? Here's one song by me, in case you
> are interested: http://www.todellisuudenomistaja.net/?p=2868
>
> -Tuukka
>
>
>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org/md/archives.html