The Great Bogeyman replies......

But certainly 4 as Mark has now commented.
You may learn from debate Mark but, as you have already experienced,
Marsha neither learns from debate nor wants to learn from debate.
To learn from debate requires an open mind and Marsha's mind is as
closed as they come - which is why she rarely engages in debate,
preferring instead to repeat herself over and over mantra style.
Marsha is also not here to discuss Pirsig's MoQ - she is here to promote
a variation of the MoQ based on a misinterpretation, but which claims to
be the 'real' MoQ that Pirsig is just too frigging dumb to understand.

Horse

On 24/01/2012 22:13, 118 wrote:
> Pirsig here....
>
> I like debate, I learn from it.  Either side can stop the debate by
> not responding.  It takes two to tango! (or maybe three now that Horse
> has put in his opinion).
>
>
> On 1/24/12, Horse<horse@dark...>  wrote:
>> I doubt this will make any difference to Marsha, Dave - a lot of this is
>> rooted in the SOM as Intellect debacle from some time ago. It doesn't
>> matter how much evidence you present or even if Pirsig himself joined in
>> the conversation.
>>
>> Horse
>>
>> On 24/01/2012 18:40, david buchanan wrote:
>>> “A Dynamic advance is meaningless unless it can find some static pattern
>>> with which to protect itself from degeneration back to the conditions that
>>> existed before the advance was made.  Evolution can't be a continuous
>>> forward movement.  It must be a process of ratchet-like steps in which
>>> there is a Dynamic movement forward up some new incline and then, if the
>>> result looks successful, a static latching-on of the gain that has been
>>> made; then another Dynamic advance, then another static latch…” (LILA, end
>>> of Chapter 11)
>>>
>>> "Sometimes a Dynamic increment goes forward but can find no latching
>>> mechanism and so fails and slips back to a previous latched position.
>>> Whole species and cultures get lost this way. Sometimes a static pattern
>>> becomes so powerful that it prohibits any Dynamic moves forward. In both
>>> cases the evolutionary process is halted for a while. But when it's not
>>> halted the result has been an increase in power to control hostile forces
>>> or an increase in versatility or both. The increase in versatility is
>>> directed toward DQ. The increase in power to control hostile forces is
>>> directed toward static quality. Without DQ the organism cannot grow.
>>> Without static quality the organism cannot last. Both are needed." (LILA,
>>> end of chapter 11)
>>>
>>>
>>> "When this understanding first broke through in Phaedrus' mind, that
>>> ethics and science had suddenly been integrated into a single system, he
>>> became so manic he couldn't think of anything else for days. The only time
>>> he had been more manic about an abstract idea was when he had first hit
>>> upon the idea of undefined Quality itself. The consequences of that first
>>> mania had been disastrous, and so now, this time, he told himself just to
>>> calm down and dig in. It was, for him, a great Dynamic breakthrough, but
>>> if he wanted to hang on to it he had better do some static latching as
>>> quickly and thoroughly as possible." (Lila, end of chapter 12)
>>>
>>>
>>> "Dharma, like rta, means 'what holds together.' It is the basis of all
>>> order. It equals righteousness. It is the ethical code. It is the stable
>>> condition which  gives man perfect satisfaction. ...Dharma is Quality
>>> itself, the principle of 'rightness' which gives structure and purpose to
>>> the evolution of all life and to the evolving understanding of the
>>> universe which life has created." (LILA, Chapter 30)
>>>
>>>
>>> "No, he did nothing for Quality or the Tao.  What benefited was reason. He
>>> showed a way by which reason may be expanded to include elements that have
>>> previously been unassimilable and thus have been considered irrational."
>>> (ZAMM, p. 257)
>>>
>>>
>>> "But now we have with us some concepts that greatly alter the whole
>>> understanding of things. Quality is the Buddha. Quality is scientific
>>> reality. Quality is the goal of Art." (ZAMM, p. 276)
>>>
>>>
>>> "I want to show that that classic pattern of rationality can be
>>> tremendously improved, expanded and made far more effective through the
>>> formal recognition of Quality in its operation." (ZAMM, p. 278)
>>>

--

"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid."
— Frank Zappa

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