Hi Ham,
The first cut in MoQ is the DQ sq cut as far as I can remember from
the beginings of this thread.  This is a structural approach, which
provides metaphysical handles with which to present Quality.  Your
fist cut is a mechanistic approach, and used in a different way.  You
are referring to the knife and not the result.  A similar first cut in
Essentialism would be Essence and Self.  Yes, I know, Self is negated
Essence.  Yet the Self can bring Essence to view.  So, it can be
considered a first cut from a structural point of view.

Mark

On 1/24/12, Ham Priday <hampday1@veri...> wrote:
> Greetings Joe --
>
> On Tues, 1/24/12 at 3:26 PM, "Joseph Maurer" <jhmau@comc...> wrote:
>
>> Hi Horse and All,
>>
>> There is a difference between a Man and a Woman.  Pirsig suggested
>> there is a difference between indefinable reality and definable reality.
>> I would suggest that "difference" can be a metaphysical concept.
>> Evolution defines existence in levels in reality, not just physical
>> differences between male and female.  How many levels in an evolution
>> in existence?
>>
>> Pirsig suggests that DQ, indefinable, like creation, be interpreted
>> metaphysically not mathematically.  DQ is indefinable.  For a long time
>> I accepted evolution as a difference in kind rather than a difference in
>> existence.  Is there an order in existence?  Using male and female as
>> foundational concepts which gender is more closely allied to DQ,
>> to SQ?  Adam was described as naming things.  Eve ate the apple.
>> At least one was more practical for continuing existence than the other.
>
> I'm responding to your post, among numerous others in this thread, because
> your thinking more closely follows my approach to this topic, which is not
> surprising, judging from past discussions we've had.
>
> Yes, Difference is indeed a metaphysical concept.  And I assume the "the
> first cut"
> alludes to the initial division or primary difference that defines
> existence.  Unlike you though, Joe, I don't see levels of evolution as
> primary any more than gender is primary.  Levels, degrees, or advancements
> of a particular kind are intellectual conceptions.  Time and space are both
> analyzable as increments that may be conceptualized as levels--"before and
> after", "here and there", for example.
>
> With due respect to RMP and Marsha, his current interpreter, I submit that
> the primary difference by which any definition is possible is that which
> separates Self from Other.  More precisely, "the first cut" is the ability
> to REALIZE difference; for without that division we would be incapable of
> experiencing a relational world.  Note that this metaphysical axiom puts
> experience ahead of the objects defined, which is also consistent with the
> MoQ.
>
> The capacity to define is what I call Sensibility; and because it embraces
> empirical, emotional, and intellectual values, I refer to it as
> "value-sensibility" and consider it the essence of man's selfness.  So that,
> instead of describing Value (i.e., DQ) as something indefinable that we
> "latch onto" as "patterns and levels", I explain experience as the
> objectivization of Value by the sensible "agent" or self.
>
> Thus, if Selfness=Individuated Sensibility, the objects of experience
> (finitude) represent "otherness", or what the sensible agent is _not_.  This
> idea has its parallel in Cusa's theorem that the First Principle (i.e., God)
> is Not-Other.  It offers an epistemology that simplifies conscious awareness
> by avoiding the analytical problems that invariably arise when we try to
> express subjects and objects as a metaphysical construct of undifferentiated
> Quality.
>
> I hope this analysis shares some of your thinking, or at least points in a
> similar direction, Joe.  If so, perhaps we can once again have a productive
> dialogue.
>
> Essentially speaking,
> Ham
>
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