Mark to Andre:

For, if sq were simply a concept this would mean that it does not have to exist and can be overturned by another concept.  This loop has to stop somewhere don't you agree?

Andre:
The way I read this Mark is that you stop growth, that you stop further, better understanding of what the concept refers to or seeks to explain. To use a very general example: the conceptualization of [the workings of] the universe after Einstein are quite different than after Newton.
Isn't Pirsig's conceptualization of the world a much better one than, for example the Platonian, Kantian or Hegelian or even the Einsteinian one?

Isn't it good that once-modern/novel concepts move to the world of 'myth' when better concepts are found to replace them? Isn't this part of evolution?

Mark:
Definition:  A dictionary is something that uses dictionary terms.  Does this provide you with an "AHA, now I know what a dictionary is"?  I am simply pointing towards the creation of a paradox.

Andre:
There is nothing paradoxical about my dictionary definition Mark:
1) a book that lists (usu. in alphabetical order) and explains the words of a language or gives equivalent words in another language... (from the Oxford concise)

I can copy the rest but you get my drift. How is this a 'redundant statement' as you call it 'that has no assumptions or ties, and kind of floats like a bubble, separate from everything else it can tie into'?

Mark:
'The survival of the fittest because the fittest survive' Total nonsense in my opinion.

Andre:
That's why it is not used in the MOQ as such. I thought Phaedrus pointed that out very clearly in LILA. Seems to me that you are making nonsense of my statement that concepts are static intellectual patterns of quality by saying that "The concept of sq cannot contain the fact that it is sq itself".

Mark:
Yes, but would you not say that the "formation of a concept" is experience?

Andre:
No. The formation of a concept is that which happens after the experience has occurred. The experience is pre-intellectual. The formation of a concept is an intellectual activity.

Mark:
What I want, is to consider what MoQ means.

Andre:
I like that and I hope we all do. What it means for us personally/socially/intellectually and live and learn in a way that affirms the 'interconnectedness of all things' and I agree with Anthony when he argues that: "The treatment of Quality through ZMM (its formlessness) and LILA (its forms)can, when taken together, be read as reflecting the circle of enlightenment, both texts are constructed as Western versions of a Zen koan...in order to assist a more Western-oriented mind achieve enlightenment"( Anthony's PhD, p44)

As you well know, a koan cannot be solved intellectually. You have to get inside it, become it to comprehend it and in that way re-solve it.

Cheers Mark.





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