OK, thanks for the names.  Much about Eastern thought as presented as western philosophy is found in writings from Schoppenhauer .  Let's not forget him, he came before all these novices who appeal to the layman.  He proffers philosophy, not some "feel good" babble.

Cheers,
Mark

Sent laboriously from an iPhone,
Mark

On Jan 28, 2012, at 1:33 AM, MarshaV <valkyr@att....> wrote:

>
>
> Mark,
>
> To list a few scholars there is Alan Wallace, of course, but there is also Vic Mansfield, Jay Garfield, Mark Siderits, Jan Westerhoff, David Loy, Guy Newland, Miri Albahari, James Austin, Anne Klein, Jeffery Hopkins.  These are to mention just a few.    And there are the publications of the dialogues with the Dalia Lama from the Mind and Life Conferences.  If it is intellectual knowledge to be presented in a discussion and if you, Mark, demand it from an informed Anglo perspective, there is plenty available with most scholars also having some experience with being monks including many years of meditation experience.  If you are speaking of enlightenment, it is not a cultural issue.  In my opinion what can be said is best presented by this little verse:  
>
>     All conditioned dharmas
>     Are like dreams, illusions, bubbles, shadows,
>     Like dew drops and a lightning flash.
>     Contemplate them thus.
>
> Or from a MoQ/Buddhist perspective:  
>
>     All static patterns of value  
>     Are like dreams, illusions, bubbles, shadows,
>     Like dew drops and a lightning flash.
>     Contemplate them thus.
>
>
> Imho,
>
> Marsha
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2012, at 1:48 AM, 118 <ununoctiums@gmai...> wrote:
>
>> Well Marsha, I am sorry you feel this way.  You are making Buddism
>> sound like some kind of foreign idea.  It is not, it is found in
>> everyday life.  It is those who seek to translate it into something
>> strange that are creating the problems.  All this silly
>> intellectualizing about what it means.  I love those who like to wear
>> the robes in this country because it makes them feel enlightened.
>> They think they have "discovered" something and try to make it somehow
>> seem different than our daily experience.  They act like they have
>> found a pot of gold and need to tell us all about it in books.  They
>> intellectualize it to the point of complete static quality.
>>
>> All this talk about nothingness and patterns and the absence of Self?
>> Do you really buy into that?  You certainly have not explained why.
>> You say you cannot find the self logically, well that is your problem.
>> Of course you can't because that is the wrong tool to use.  It is not
>> subservient to reason, why would you even consider such reason to be
>> some kind of Proof that it doesn't exist?  You cannot point to your
>> own finger, but you can use your finger to point.
>>
>> You seem to be so caught up in your intellect that you cannot even see
>> that you personally exist.  This is what I call Buddhist Zombie-ism.
>> The undead walking around as sets of patterns, nothing better than
>> that.  They all march to some predestined place as the patterns direct
>> them.  Oh, look one changed into a vampire, yes, I guess you are
>> right, ever-changing... but still void of anything meaningful. Why
>> become enlightened when there is nothing to enlighten?  Once a Zombie
>> always a Zombie.
>>
>> I do not see why you put the concept of patterns above the sense of
>> Self.  You seem to be stuck in Thinking.  This is what Zen tries to
>> guide one out of.  Your thoughts happen to you, are you going to let
>> those thoughts tell you that you do not exist?  The only thing I ask
>> you to guard against is the Ego, but there is plenty more to you than
>> that.
>>
>> Think about it.  Try some mindfulness the way it is supposed to be
>> done.  Then you will realize that all this pattern nonsense pales
>> beside Self Awareness.  Even if you want to call it "no-self
>> awareness", it is still Self Awareness, because you are the one doing
>> it.  Yes, You, not a pattern of some kind.  For if a pattern is
>> calling itself a pattern, where does that leave you?  You are much
>> better than that!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mark
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 6:04 PM, MarshaV <valkyr@att....> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mark,
>>>
>>> There are hundreds of scholarly tomes and journal articles written by scholars addressing Buddhist philosophy and written in English.  Because you haven't been exposed to them doesn't mean they do not exist.  Buddhism has always been adaptable and accessable, and it has gone global.
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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