Hi dmb,

Or as I clearly stated in this post (below) to Dave Harding:  



On Feb 10, 2012, at 3:50 PM, MarshaV wrote:
>
> David:
> Do you think everything is relative? Or do you think that some things are better than others?

Marsha:
You've setup an either/or fallacy, but I will try to answer.  If by 'relative' you mean 'existing or having its specific nature only by relation to something else' my answer would be yes on both counts.  I think all patterns depend upon other patterns for their existence AND I think some patterns are better than others.

---

Marsha



On Feb 13, 2012, at 1:30 PM, MarshaV wrote:

>
>
> Hi dmb,
>
> And this is the sense I've always meant relative as I have explained many times including posting the dictionary definition, which makes no reference to the extreme, amoral cultural relativism that you would like to confuse it with.
>
>
> Marsha  
>
>
>
>
> relative
>
> noun
> 1. a person who is connected with another or others by blood or marriage.
> 2. something having, or standing in, some relation to something else.
> 3. something dependent upon external conditions for its specific nature, size, etc. ( opposed to absolute).
> 4. Grammar . a relative pronoun, adjective, or adverb.
>
> adjective
> 5. considered in relation to something else; comparative: the relative merits of democracy and monarchy.
> 6. existing or having its specific nature only by relation to something else; not absolute or independent:  Happiness is relative.
> 7. having relation or connection.
> 8. having reference or regard; relevant; pertinent (usually followed by to ): to determine the facts relative to an accident.
> 9. correspondent; proportionate: Value is relative to demand.
> 10. (of a term, name, etc.) depending for significance upon something else: “Better” is a relative term.
>
> (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/relative)  
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2012, at 1:17 PM, david buchanan wrote:
>
>>
>> Howdy MOQers:
>>
>> There is relativity in the Einsteinian sense and there is relativity is the "anything goes" sense, but Watts is talking about relativity in neither of those senses. He's making a point about the RELATIONAL nature of existence. He's saying that "things" are what they are by virtue of being tangled up in a total situation, in a context, in RELATION to all other "things". "They exist in relation to each other," he says. As you can see here, Watts goes on to explain this sense of relativism:
>>
>> "... Indeed, it would be best to drop the idea of causality and use instead the idea of relativity. For it is still inexact to say that an organism “responds” or “reacts” to a given situation by running or standing, or whatever. This is still the language of Newtonian billiards. It is easier to think of situations as moving patterns, like organisms themselves. Thus, to go back to the cat (or catting), a situation with pointed ears and whiskers at one end does not have a tail at the other as a response or reaction to the whiskers, or the claws, or the fur. As the Chinese say, the various features of a situation “arise mutually” or imply one another as back implies front, and as chickens imply eggs—and vice versa. They exist in relation to each other like the poles of the magnet, only more complexly patterned."
>>
>> Because of this kind of kind murky confusion, which is fairly constant, I think it would be very unwise for anyone to take MOQ lessons from Marsha.
>>
>>
>>> From: valkyr@att....
>>> Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:51:25 -0500
>>> To: moq_discuss@moqt...
>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Truth and Relativity 2.9.9
>>>
>>>
>>> For those Alan Watts fans, he writes "it would be best to drop the idea of causality and use instead the idea of relativity."
>>>
>>>
>>> From 'THE BOOK: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are' by Alan Watts
>>>
>>> "As soon as one sees that separate things are fictitious, it becomes obvious that nonexistent things cannot "perform" actions. The difficulty is that most languages are arranged so that actions (verbs) have to be set in motion by things (nouns), and we forget that rules of grammar are not necessarily rules, or patterns, of nature. This, which is nothing more than a convention of grammar, is also responsible for (or, better, "goeswith") absurd puzzles as to how spirit governs matter, or mind moves body. How can a noun, which is by definition not action, lead to action?
>>>
>>> "Scientists would be less embarrassed if they used a language, on the model of Amerindian Nootka, consisting of verbs and adverbs, and leaving off nouns and adjectives. If we can speak of a house as housing, a mat as matting, or of a couch as seating, why can't we think of people as "peopling," of brains as "braining," or of an ant as an "anting?" Thus in the Nootka language a church is "housing religiously," a shop is "housing tradingly," and a home is "housing homely." Yet we are habituated to ask, "Who or what is housing? Who peoples? What is it that ants?" Yet isn't it obvious that when we say, "The lightning flashed," the flashing is the same as the lightning, and that it would be enough to say, "There was lightning"? Everything labeled with a noun is demonstrably a process or action, but language is full of spooks, like the "it" in "It is raining," which are the supposed causes, of action.
>>>
>>> "Does it really explain running to say that "A man is running"? On the contrary, the only explanation would be a description of the field or situation in which "a manning goeswith running" as distinct from one in which "a manning goeswith sitting." (I am not recommending this primitive and clumsy form of verb language for general and normal use. We should have to contrive something much more elegant.) Furthermore, running is not something other than myself, which I (the organism) do. For the organism is sometimes a running process, sometimes a standing process, sometimes a sleeping process, and so on, and in each instance the "cause" of the behavior is the situation as a whole, the organism environment. Indeed, it would be best to drop the idea of causality and use instead the idea of relativity."    
>>>
>>>
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