Yes, Marsha. In this way one cannot present truths in the dialectic
fashion. But be careful how you use the phrase that "everything is an
analogy", it can make what you post meaningless. The dialectical
position has its purposes, as you are fully aware, to demolish such a
things would make this forum meaningless. I imagine you already know
that, and you will temper your opinions accordingly. One can only
hope :-). I will try to correct you when you stray from what you are
presenting, and help you with your construction of your metaphysics.
Unless you want to arrive at nonsense, that is. No reply please. I
do not want to participate in some fantasy out of this.
On 2/21/12, MarshaV <valkyr@att....> wrote:
> "Fantastic, Phædrus thinks, that he should have remembered that. It just
> demolishes the whole dialectical position. That may just be the whole show
> right there. Of course it's an analogy. Everything is an analogy. But the
> dialectician don't know that."
> (ZAMM, Ch. 30)
> But you know this.
> Sent from my iPad
> On Feb 21, 2012, at 2:04 AM, MarshaV <valkyr@att....> wrote:
>> Sorry, but from my point-of-view your collection of questions do not seem
>> not to make sense. Conventionally real would equate to stating something
>> is a static pattern, not ultimately real. Free will and determinism are
>> intellectual static patterns of value, but "To the extent that one's
>> behavior is controlled by static patterns of quality it is without choice.
>> But to the extent that one follows Dynamic Quality, which is undefinable,
>> one's behavior is free." (RMP, LILA: Chapter 12).
>> On Feb 20, 2012, at 4:48 PM, 118 <ununoctiums@gmai...> wrote:
>>> Hi Marsha,
>>> That is an interesting opinion. It does indeed lie within your MoQ as
>>> I have become accustomed to from your posts. Although I do not quite
>>> see how you tie morality into it. That word seems out of place in
>>> your paragraph below.
>>> The difference is more easily presented in terms of free-will. The
>>> use of patterns seems to deny such a thing, if I read your post
>>> correctly. Is free will a pattern, or is it DQ? Or perhaps it is a
>>> third thing altogether. The quote you present of Pirsig's is rather
>>> strange. It creates three things. DQ, sq, and the individual. Could
>>> you perhaps explain why you present this triad? What is it about the
>>> individual that separates him/her from DQ. I am currently pondering
>>> this as well.
>>> I am not sure what you mean by conventionally. Is a squirrel not real
>>> outside of convention? When a fox catches a squirrel is that within
>>> the conventional reality? What is it that forms this convention? It
>>> would seem that you are making a distinction in realities here, but I
>>> am not quite sure what that is. Could you provide me a little more
>>> depth to this? Is Quality conventional or unconventional when we are
>>> pointing towards it. What would make it unconventional or
>>> conventional in your view?
>>> Finally, in terms of your patterns. What is the source for these
>>> patterns? Do they exist outside of the need for patterns? If the
>>> source is our need for them, why do we need them? If they have no
>>> inherent existence, what does have inherent existence? If nothing has
>>> inherent existence, then patterns have as much inherent existence as
>>> anything else. In fact, the term inherent existence can be dropped
>>> completely, or a pattern can be said to have inherent existence
>>> "relative" to something else. If we use this defenition for inherent
>>> existence, we can say that patterns do have inherent existence.
>>> Otherwise you seem to leave yourself in a vacuum of sorts, and life is
>>> anything but a vacuum.
>>> Why would we gravitate and accept something that doesn't exist? How
>>> can we differentiate between "I" and "You", for it seems that this is
>>> what we do. The notion that I would be posting a response to you
>>> would not make sense in you metaphysics, and this conversation would
>>> have already been determined before we got involved due to previous
>>> patterns. With your pattern analogy, how do you get away from
>>> On 2/20/12, MarshaV <valkyr@att....> wrote:
>>>> Greetings Mark,
>>>> I think it might be time to float this quote once again:
>>>> "The reason there is a difference between individual evaluations of
>>>> is that although Dynamic Quality is a constant, these static patterns
>>>> different for everyone because each person has a different static
>>>> pattern of
>>>> life history. Both the Dynamic Quality and the static patterns influence
>>>> final judgment. That is why there is some uniformity among individual
>>>> judgments but not complete uniformity."
>>>> (RMP, SODV)
>>>> Because I see it differently; for me, static patterns of value are
>>>> processes, conditionally co-dependent, impermanent, ever-changing and
>>>> conceptualized, that pragmatically tend to persist and change within a
>>>> stable, predictable pattern. Within the MoQ, these patterns are morally
>>>> categorized into a four-level, evolutionary, hierarchical structure:
>>>> inorganic, biological, social and intellectual. Static quality exists in
>>>> stable patterns relative to other patterns: patterns depend upon (
>>>> relative to) innumerable causes and conditions (patterns), depend upon
>>>> (exist relative to) parts and the collection of parts (patterns), depend
>>>> upon (exist relative to) conceptual designation (patterns). Patterns
>>>> have no
>>>> independent, inherent existence. Further, these patterns pragmatically
>>>> exist relative to an individual's static pattern of life history.
>>>> Yet I can still agree that static quality is in some sense real as rain.
>>>> The rain, tree, the squirrel and even squirrel nuts are conventionally
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