Geeze Ant,
You are still stuck in MoQ 101.  Stop thinking so much about what
things are not.  It is really disturbing.  Let go, just a little.
Breath out!  Use what you have learned and be creative with it.
Pirsig was a begining, don't you get that?

However, I am glad that Marsha is teaching you something.  It is nice
to see some humility coming from you.

Mark

On 6/21/12, Ant McWatt <antmcwatt@hotm...> wrote:
>
> Good point, Marsha.  I was waiting for someone to say that!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Ant
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Maraha V stated June 21st:
>
>
> Dynamic Quality isn't any thing. It isn't 'dark night', or chaos; it is
> unpatterned; it is indivisible, undefinable and unknowable. I would imagine
> that there might be different responses in relationship to such experiences,
> and a dark night funk might be one of them, but not necessarily. Wouldn't it
> depend on one's static pattern history and the dynamics of the event(s)? A
> monk having spent a lifetime in a monastery might react with AHA! Someone
> from a hyper-rational environment might react with a OMG!
>
> Marsha
>
>
>> On Jun 20, 2012, at 5:13 PM, 118 <ununoctiums@gmai...> wrote:
>>
>> > Pure DQ is dark night. Just look at what happened to Pirsig that
>> > required his brain to be rebooted! Pretty dark indeed, for that was
>> > severe treatment as he says in ZAMM. He lost his personality, and had
>> > only some vague memories and some writing to go by to discover who he
>> > was. Must have been pretty disturbing. Even in Lila he treats his
>> > personality from before as a third person. He states that he had to
>> > try to analyze a romantic view with a classical view.
>> >
>> > He is not the only one this happened to through the ages. It is a
>> > personal time when nothing makes sense, and one is lost. Some
>> > describe this as extreme temptation (see Buddha). Then hopefully
>> > there is rebirth and a new view. Pirsig had a bit of this, but
>> > unfortunately he cannot remember what it was like to be "aware" like
>> > he was before the electroconvulsive therapy. Still, he did a good job
>> > with his first autobiography in presenting what he may have "seen" and
>> > made it useful when he brought back it into the ghost of reason for
>> > the rest of us.
>> >
>> > One cannot live in DQ alone. It can be dark. Be careful if you
>> > decide to go there, it is no fantasy story. It is not just a state of
>> > mind. Best to stay in this comfortable world of knowledge and not
>> > tempt those boundaries.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Mark
>> >
>> > On 6/19/12, MarshaV <valkyr@att....> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Joe,
>> >>
>> >> Is DQ dark night??? Or is dark night the pointless suffering in a
>> >> world
>> >> filled with attachment to violent (false) static patterns and a false
>> >> sense
>> >> of control? Maybe it is the confusion that seems darkest before the
>> >> dawn?
>> >> Fear of letting go? Why? No guarantees? Lost expectations? Why chaos
>> >> and
>> >> not fear-free Oneness? Fear of there being nothing to know and no one
>> >> to
>> >> know it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Marsha
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 19, 2012, at 2:38 PM, Joseph Maurer <jhmau@comc...> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi MarshaV and All,
>> >>>
>> >>> DQ is Dark Night. Seemingly nothing, since is declared to be
>> >>> indefinable!
>> >>> DQ is not nothing! Comforting emotion makes my hair stand on end like
>> >>> a
>> >>> madman. I feel so terribly alone. The wonder of wonders is that DQ
>> >>> can
>> >>> stand alone begging SQ for boundaries. The response to DQ only is:
>> >>> Are
>> >>> you
>> >>> nuts? What are you talking about? Oh shit! And away we go!
>> >>>
>> >>> Joe
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 6/19/12 1:04 AM, "MarshaV" <valkyr@att....> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Dark night stuff cannot be very pleasant and I wonder if it might
>> >>>> help to
>> >>>> make
>> >>>> it a topic. It is a common experience in many of the strains of
>> >>>> perennial
>> >>>> philosophy. Or maybe just doing some reading on the subject can
>> >>>> help.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
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