As I said it was not a matter of not getting it, or not recognizing
the history .... my questions were purely practical. And you answered
"we will have no need of 'explicit society', if you like. no need for
laws, prisons, any absolute restrictions of freedom. instead the
harmony of nature will be enough, as it is for the rest of the
A utopian dream - can't argue with that as a dream, as a wish, a
desire, a goal, an aim, mine too, seriously, there is "nothing funny
'bout peace, love and understanding", but ... you also said ...
"destroying the giant - explicit controlling society - is a job for
every individual. it is done not through violence (for that is the
giant's tool) but through love, patience, kindness, awareness,
So being practical about this ..... if you (gav) as an individual take
on that lifestyle for yourself, what about all the other "individuals"
? If they don't follow your lead at the same time .... do you leave
each individual (in the clutches of the current giant) to work it out
for themselves ? Or do you "educate" them in any way ?
What do you feel for your fellow man (individuals every one of them) ?
If you (gav) find peace living that dream life, do you feel no moral
responsibility for those (individuals) left behind, who haven't
evolved ... yet .... or may never "get it", and thereby as individuals
live and die more painfully than they might otherwise need to ?
And, assuming some power-hungry egotist individuals, I'm alright Jack,
decide they don't wanna follow you anyway - they as a group may
continue to evolve in different directions - how will you deal with
them encroaching on your own individual freedoms ?
I don't want an "explicit" society any more than you do. My view is
society is (would be) simply emergent from the cooperative "harmony"
of the many individuals.
I think you see your "live or die" view as strictly natural evolution
.... a la Ishmael .... but I don't see any evidence that this commmune
of a putative new world would survive evolution without having a plan
to handle free-loaders and non-conformists ... other than "turning the
You say "no violence" but does your world have nothing worth
"defending", nothing it needs to "organise" to support and maintain,
to maximise your collective chances in nature, to minimise risks to
your sustaining environment, etc ? Evolution works at the level of
the multi-generational, reproducing species and interacting
ecosystems, not just the individual.
I think I said some years ago that the crux of what we all seem to
want is the form of "governence" ... I still feel that. I think there
is a lot of room for creativity in bringing quality values to such
governance, but no governance - anarchy - just doesn't seem practical.
Is it just me ?