I might have missed what you are saying. Yes, it is
true there are non-d20, non-OGL products out there.

But distributors know what is up, to some extent. They
know their market. And non-d20 OGL stuff that isnt
licensed content (a la Babylon 5) or from an
established publisher isnt selling crap right now.
Distributors wont all of a sudden forget what these
products are. They know that the market for them
sucks.

Clark

--- Steven Trustrum <trustrum@misf...>
wrote:

> Except this argument ignores the fact that other
> companies still manage to
> sell distributors on their products without them
> even using the d20 logo or
> OGL. There is an entire aspect of the gaming
> industry that goes through the
> three tier system and has nothing to do with the
> discussion here because
> they have nothing to do with the OGL system. The new
> branding would
> basically be a marketing tool for the consumer, so
> if the distributor
> doesn't recognize its value the publisher still has
> the same chance of
> pushing his product to the distributors as some guy
> who is bringing his own
> unique products to the market. Yes, the whole "ride
> the authenticity of d20"
> aspect would disappear, but that's not even remotely
> the same as opportunity
> disappearing entirely.
>
> Regards,
>  
> Steven Trustrum
>      President For Life (or until the money runs
> out)
> Misfit Studios
>
> http://www.misfit-studios.com
> trustrum@misf...
> 416-857-2433
>  
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ogf-l-bounces@mail...
> [mailto:ogf-l-bounces@mail...]
> On Behalf Of Clark
> Peterson
> Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 4:35 AM
> To: ogf-l@mail...
> Subject: RE: [Ogf-l] RE: OGL Logos
>
> You guys are forgetting the real market force here:
> distributors.
>
> (though some of the arguments are the same)
>
> Your products dont get to the fans unless the
> retailers buy them from distributors.
>
> Distributors bought d20 at first. But "d20" as a
> whole
> was a disaster. Lots of people got stuck with "d20"
> products. What distributors and retailers learned is
> taht there are a few companies (regardless of logo)
> that make products that sell through.
>
> That is what a distributor wants.
>
> You can make as many freaking logos as you want.
>
> If you dont get to put the "official" logo on your
> product (or in the case of d20, the official
> non-official logo) distributors are going to be WAY
> less interested.
>
> It doesnt matter if you make the connection with the
> purchasers. I agree with the posters who said there
> is
> only a small chunk of OGL saavy purchasers and they
> know what it is without the logo. What matters is if
> you make the connection with the distributors.
>
> If there is no logo like the d20 logo for 4E (ie if
> the d20 license is yanked) then my uneducated (ok,
> slightly educated) guess is that distributors will
> have little love for unofficial support. They arent
> that thrilled about d20. They like Green Ronin and
> White Wolf and Malhavoc and Necromancer, etc. But we
> have proven those things as companies, not logos.
> Sure, we used the logo to get in. But, even having
> established a track record of sales (we've done over
> 40 books now I think and only 1 lost money--and it
> didnt lose much. now if you are a distributor that
> is
> a track record you want to jump on) I still dont
> know
> how excited distributors will be to carry my stuff
> if
> it isnt more official.
>
> My guess: When 4E hits, if the best we can do are
> "OGL" products to support it, I think that means
> trouble. Not so much from the fans. I mean from the
> distributors.
>
> Clark
>
> --- Roger Bert <old-oeridians@amer...> wrote:
>
> > If 4E is not licensed then you can't brand your
> OGL
> > products to D&D or d20
> > for that matter. The d20 System Trademark license
> > and licensees will likely
> > be rescinded by WOTC. Who are you going to be
> > branding too?
> >
> > Perhaps today a little "OGL" logo means it is
> > compatible with D&D more or
> > less for the very few purchasers who know what the
> > OGL is or even notice the
> > logo. But this will be meaningless when the logos
> > disappear from the real
> > D&D books.
> >
> > If your product is not meant to be played with D&D
> > than using a logo is
> > really meaningless even now. Gamers want a fun and
> > useable game and they
> > could care less if publishers can re-use their
> > material. Gamers can reuse
> > anything they want!
> >
> > And, to be blunt, most of the publishers are not
> > re-using material from
> > other companies. Sure, there has been a little.
> But
> > like I said the people
> > who could reuse the material already know what to
> > look for.
> >
> > There is no need for an OGL logo and this is
> > especially true if 4E is not
> > released under the OGL.
> >
> > Product branding, artwork, and any logos should
> > relate to the product (and
> > publisher) and not to the OGL.
> > -Roger
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ogf-l-bounces@mail...
> >
>
[mailto:ogf-l-bounces@mail...]On
> > Behalf Of Steven
> > Trustrum
> > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 8:32 PM
> > To: ogf-l@mail...
> > Subject: RE: [Ogf-l] RE: OGL Logos
> >
> >
> > Roger, marketing isn't just about what currently
> > works under an existing
> > system but also what can be made to work under a
> new
> > framework. If 4e is
> > released and isn't licensed, alternatives will
> > become necessary to anyone
> > looking to continue their OGL lines with any sort
> of
> > non-WotC related
> > branding. That too, is (as you put it), a fact.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Steven Trustrum
> >      President For Life (or until the money runs
> > out)
> > Misfit Studios
> >
> > http://www.misfit-studios.com
> > trustrum@misf...
> > 416-857-2433
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ogf-l-bounces@mail...
> >
> [mailto:ogf-l-bounces@mail...]
> > On Behalf Of Roger Bert
> > Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 8:24 PM
> > To: ogf-l@mail...
> > Subject: [Ogf-l] RE: OGL Logos
> >
> > I can't believe that everyone is so interested in
> > someone else's logos and
> > willing to debate it so much.
> >
> > Here is the fact: The only logo that means
> anything
> > is the d20 System logo.
> >
> > It means something to most D&D players out there.
> It
> > means something to them
> > because Wizards of the Coast spent a lot of
> > marketing dollars on it and it
> > is seen on every D&D book. Heck, even all the 3E
> D&D
> > player's haven't even
>
=== message truncated ===




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